John Kerry or George Bush?

The French like Kerry. Because a) he’s the anti-Bush, and b) he speaks French and his family used to have a house in Normandy, and c) he’s the cousin of a politician here. That’s enough for them I guess

A frog is asking about the American election on a French forum? Well, what does one say to the American people!?

Perhaps we should whisper in everyone’s ear that "It’s okay to support an intelligent man for President."

Replies should be interesting . . . .

Isn’t it nice that when one starts with a little irony, one can always find humor in the responses to follow.

Kermit: hi,..I like the name

I think Kerry would win if it was up to the French. They hate Bush with a passion.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..If I could whisper to the American ear in a voting booth, I’d say…

"Remember the hundreds of Americans dead in Iraq. Remember the WMD that never appeared. Remember Haliburton/Bechtel who got the contracts in Iraq. Remember the abuse of Iraqui prisoners. Bush’s Patriot Act (that isn’t patriotic at all) takes our freedoms away here in the USA. Remember Bush family connections to Bin Laden family and the House of Saud" I could go on and on…

I’m sure Kerry has skeletons in his closet, too. No politician is innocent or blameless. However, to denigrate Kerry simply because he has French roots or to slander his wife because she is rich and foreign born is unethical and unamerican.

We’re all descended from immigrants in the USA. The only people native here are the Native American Indians, and look at what the British settlers did to them here…

wouldn’t it be ironic if Kerry wins? All this nonsense these past 2 years about a French boycott and then they vote for a guy with French roots and who speaks fluent French

Oh well, we will know in November

SalB: If it is ok to support an intelligent man for the White House, how does that explain Bushing being in the White House? Face it, he is not the brightest bulb in the tree.

Kermit: If the Presidency was dependent on France, Kerry would win by a landslide. Not only for the reasons given by crc95 and LaVieilleBranche – but also because the French like a good economy, they like food, wine and fashion, and they have learned that the Military can lead you astray. These are all things that Kerry can be identified with. Donerail

I’ve read opinions from abroad that changes to the U.S. Administration profoundly affects them or affects them to a measureable degree which is obviously true. I’m curious about the opinion from a European or Global perspective about the following question: Do you think that those affected globally should have a concrete way to affect the U.S vote for Presidency?

Donerail, You must be sleepy . . . jet lag perhaps. If you have to tell people it’s okay to support an intelligent man for President, the assumption is they don’t know it and they have to be told.

Further, if you’re talking about Kerry, you are talking about the NEXT election.

Perhaps a cup of coffee . . . ?!

Kermit, Other countries do have have a concrete way to affect the U.S vote for Presidency. They can boycott American products. They can complain to the UN. They can drop out of the "coalition."

Unfortunately, they can also engage in acts of terrorism. The recent election in Spain where the election was affected by the train bombing set a very bad example of concrete things one can do. When the election swung and Spain pulled out of Iraq, it was a very loud message that the method works. I hope we don’t see more of it in other elections.

Cutting back oil exports can concretely affect a US election. We are so insulated in our little world that we don’t always realize what goes on to manipulate our elections but manipulated they are!

I’d love to hear some European opinions on this subject.

salb, I agree with your assessment. Restricting/increasing oil exports or more specifically REFINED oil exports would definitely influence the economy of the US if not the elections. What is interesting to me is that the US has a SURPLUS of oil resources but if they want to act on them they have to EXPORT the oil to be refined as was done during at times during the Clinton Administration. As for terrorism in the US to influence the vote, it looks like such things have had the opposite affect of what the terrorists want. Look at 9-11. Do you think the U.S. would have invaded Afghanistan much less Iraq if it had not happened? Would not Osama prefer to be left alone or to be chased across the countryside, operations disrupted et al, ad infinitum? If one was a greedy self-seeking US incumbent regarding IRAQ,it is far more profitable to NOT engage in an extremely expensive war that will cost millions if not billions for decades on end than to follow the international status quo and take part of the graft from the Oil for Food programme. Better to be a part of a national entity to profit from a cooperative Saddam than to nullify it with an expensive war. Why is this not currently the reality?

Kermit/SalB: All countries’ politicians think in terms of their own best interests. Some countries are more honest with their citizenery than others. I believe this happens in phases. We, in the USA, are not in a good phase right now. Hopefully, civlilization will procede based upon logic and proportion and not religion. Donerail

Hello Kermit, the Festival de Cannes just gave the answer to your question. The film that won the Palme d’Or? Farenheit 9/11. Read it
here.

I think that speaks volumes!

He won it, but keep in mind that there were 4 American members in that 9-member jury.

If the Cannes Film Festival is supposed to be an international festival, then why were there 4 AMERICAN judges out of 9? This seems to be a blatent attempt to rig the panel so that American films win the awards. No country should have more than 1 judge on the panel at any one time, so that the system is fair to all countries and films.

Kermit, This war isn’t about terrorism. If it were, we would have spent the money and resources trying to capture the accused terrorist. We actually have more CIA resources dealing with Castro and Cuba than we do dealing with terrorists. It is a significant amount that makes it obvious that terrorism is not a high priority. I guess someone forgot to tell the CIA that the Cold War is over . . . unless there is something they aren’t telling us.

We had already started a pipeline across the Middle East and needed Afghanistan to finish it; hence, the war in Afghanistan. I’m not sure what was being attempted in Iraq other than settling an old score, trying to get fingers in the oil supply and possibly getting rid of a dissenting voice among Arab leaders. Considering Saddam’s reputation amongst Arab leaders, we might have better kept him there so we could all hate him together. At least he was a unifying factor in that respect!

I think you have to wait 200 years to find out what a war was really about. Unless you’re in the power structure, you’re a pawn. My goodness, that sounds cynical . . .

Can’t wait to see Fareneheit 911. Moore is somewhat on the deep left fringe, but he is very entertaining. Bush is so far to the Religious Right that it makes great comedy. Too bad so many lives are at stake. Donerail

SalB; You are amazing. I couldn’t write it any better. Did you go to school in Massachusetts? Plus you write without baiting. Why can’t I do that? Donerail

Are you a cynic too?

No, I went to school in Ohio. Undergrad was in upstate NY and grad school in Missouri. I read the NY Times because my daughters read it and I have to converse with them. One of my very best friends lives in Boston (Dorchester) and we write and talk a lot. I read our local once-a-week paper too. It’s wildly right wing but it has the town schedules. Gives me a different perspective.

You enjoy baiting. I find it anathema. It’s a cultural difference. You can worry about that for a week while I’m gone!

This will be an interesting race. One thing is that Kerry as you say speaks French and has good relations with them. I think that the French factor only helps when you are in office. They can help your image so things go smothly back home. They don’t really help you out diectly during elections. So, if Kerry was in office and Bush was going against him I think it might help him, but right now he’s going to the American populous who quite frankly could care less about Kerry being a francaphone.

Bush on the other hand is fluent in Spanish and there are many imagrants in the US who speak spanish. Bush is also from Texas where he had alot of relations with Mexico. Most Mexicans could care less about the war in Iraq one way or another.

The Hispanic factor on the other hand didn’t help Bush because he could not build sufficient support in Europe and in the rest of the old world for the war in Iraq. This hurt him back home because they made it hard on him.

So I think that if the situation were switched, the Language factor might have been more of a force in this election.

About him actuially whinning the race. Like Gore he doesn’t have the support of the Clinton’s, so some of the hardliners in the democratic party might switch over this election, but we will have to see. On the other hand Kerry doesn’t have personal problem with the Clinton’s like Gore did. As many of you who study the political structure of the country well know, on a social level the Clinton’s and the Bush’s like each other. Of course Clinton could never indorce Bush, but they havn’t really bashed into Bush like Kerry has been because Clinton believed that Iraq had WMDs as well. Of course at conventions he has to tug the party line and bash Bush, but all that is really just formality.

amero-franc: With regard to the election, I think it will come down to the 5-10% of the "undecided." Hopefully Nader will toss in the towel by the end of the Summer. Kerry should win easily.

SalB: Why are you so defensive? Was a week in London better than a week in La France? My wife has been lobbying for a long time to do there – but so far, neither one of us want to sacrafice a trip to France to do so.

Donerail

I was born defensive.

Re the week in London versus the week in France. Go to France!!!!!!! No question about it. We enjoyed our week in London and deliberately chose to go there for our anniversary because we had never before visited London. It was fun to see the things we did, and we particularly enjoyed the art galleries.

That said, the churches in Paris are far more beautiful than the churches in London. Paris has art galleries too. The food is far better in France. Quite frankly, the kicker for us was that France is much MUCH less expensive than London. We couldn’t believe the prices. I’ll admit to being heartily frugal, but I finally just gave up and we ate where we found the food to be suitable and didn’t think about the cost. I don’t often do that but we were desperate!

We felt (and this is just our personal opinion) that Paris is cleaner. People complain about dog poo in Paris. Well in London, you have that and can add a whole lot of horse poo to it. (Size matters here!) The restrooms in Paris were cleaner. The restaurants in Paris were cleaner. I’m sticking to Paris because it’s not fair to compare rural France with the city of London. I’m sure things are not as expensive in rural England but we didn’t go there. Also things are not as expensive in rural France so the comparison probably holds no matter where you are.

Another oddity was that many museums and art galleries in London are free but you pay to go into the churches. Seemed a bit odd to us!!

Comparatively speaking we find the French to be much more polite than the British. The serving people in both are wonderful, but the average man on the street in London was aggressive, pushy and rude. People often simply walked into us. They drive on the left but there seems to be no consensus on where to walk. They take over the entire sidewalk and expect you to get out of their way. In the Underground there were steps clearly marked with colored arrows to go up on the left and down on the right and willy nilly they stormed up and down either side. New York seems positively pleasant by comparison!

You certainly don’t need to worry about what to wear in London. They appear to be as overweight as American and their dress was worse than casual. It was disgusting. Chubby ladies wore skin tight low slung knit pants with tops that looked like a nightgown. Tattooed tummies stuck out in the area between top and pant. Men were equally poorly dressed. We did attend a couple evening concerts and people dressed nicely there, but no more nicely than in Boston, for instance. I must admit, though, it was certainly liberating!

If you can only make one trip a year, go to France. If you can make several European trips a year, London would probably be worth a look, especially if your wife wants to go.

We would like to see rural England and will probably make a trip in the future, but we both agreed we much prefer France and Paris remains our favorite city. Of course, you have to consider our personal tastes colored our opinions. You might feel very differently.

SalB: Thank you so much for the info on your trip to London. I had heard from a couple of folks that London was quite expensive. It does have a lot of history, though. Your description of some of the behavioral patterns in The Tube and on sidewalks was very interesting. Could those folks have been tourists from New York? Donerail

When someone bumps you on their way through you, you don’t catch an accent. The weirdest clothes we saw did come with a definite English accent though.

There were plenty of tourists, but I suspect most of the rude people were British. One guy yelled at us because we were walking in a traffic area. A policeman had told us to go there because the traffic was completely stopped (by several more policemen) for the annual Trooping of the Colors rehearsal. The fellow was angry because he had opened his car door completely blocking the very narrow walkway and I said "excuse me" and attempted to get by. Of course he wasn’t supposed to be standing outside with all his car doors open either but that didn’t occur to him. He was most definitely British!

We did meet some very nice people and all the service people were terrific. The sidewalk seems to bring out the beast in people.

There is a lot of history, but a lot of history was destroyed in the war. France seems to have done a better job of repairing the damage than Britain. Some of the British modern architecture can only be described as bizarre. Prince Charles would agree with me as he’s severly criticized it . . . and been criticized himself for doing so.

The beautiful historic buildings are, in many cases, surrounded by modern structures that are incredibly ugly. It’s a shame. We also like the gothic architecture and there isn’t much of that in London. We did like all the green areas and our hotel was right across from Kensington Park so we ate breakfast in the conservatory every morning looking over the park. We spent a lot of time in Kensington and Hyde Parks and thoroughly enjoyed that. People seemed much more polite in the parks . . . perhaps because they had more room to move around.

We didn’t dislike London, but we both prefer Paris. London is very expensive, but you have to admit, Paris is a bargain for both hotels and food so it’s hard to compare. I think what I missed the most was the French. I really like them. There is something elegant, kind and witty about them. That’s a tough combination to find!

SalB: Thanks. Sad to see the modern architecture becomming so bizzare in London. We had two decades of that in Boston during the 50’s and 60’s. We have turned it around to a more traditional archetecure. Elegant. That is a great term for the French. I agree totally. They even confined their thirst for bizzare architecture to La Defense. (Pompidou Centre is actually kind of neat.) Any culture that prides itself with things like the AOC concept has to be admired. Can’t wait to go back. Donerail

SalB: I was in London a few years ago just for a change in flights and I also found the English to be quite rude and nasty. Since that time I always be sure to change planes in a city that is definately NOT London. Live and learn

So the Brits are as fat as Americans? And dress worse than us Yankees? YUCK! Another reason to stay away from England…

I would take France, Italy, Germany and Belgium any day over England.

If you want to see high prices than go to Switzerland! A small French flam that costs 8 euros in Paris costs 23 euros in Switzerland. No thanks, I’ll stay in France.

Interesting. We haven’t been in Switzerland since 1998 and were more impressed with how clean it was rather than how expensive it was. Admittedly, we stayed in a time share with half board so we were only paying for lunch and sightseeing attractions. We also spent much of our time in smaller towns out in the boonies in the French-speaking section of the country. I don’t know if that made a difference or not or if it simply wasn’t as expensive back then. Of course the exchange rate right now is pretty bad too . . .

I think the thing that surprised me most about London was having to pay to visit a church. I wonder what happens if someone wants to pray instead of look? There must be a way around the fees for people like that. At least I hope so! There were big signs up saying the church didn’t receive any money from the state for support, but neither does our church and we don’t charge for walking in the front door. Strange country . . .

SalB: They’re English….feel pity for them Go to France next time> The churches are free, except the Russian Orthodox Cathedral in Nice, they make you pay to enter.

Funny you should mention it . . . we are going to France next time. We’re flying into and out of Nice and will be careful to avoid the Russian Orthodox church. Thanks for the warning. BTW, why do they charge when no other churches do? Is there something special there?

SalB: yes..the orthodox church was doing major repairs to the artworks, etc and the money they charged ($2.50) to enter helped to pay for the renovations.

I still thought charging money to enter a church is cheesy.

As a good segway back to the topic:

Do you all know after a that on Sunday during John Kerry’s ski trip he entered a church in his sweaty ski gear. He entered during the service. I’m not sure that Kerry is the classy French-relations-guy everyones talking about. That was so weird. I’m not sure if we even know who Kerry really is.

Sweaty ski gear would be modest attire in our church. I swear half the congregation come in wearing shorts. Some of the young women wear very short shorts that are low slung on the hips and accompanied by rather tight skimpy tops. Tee shirts seem to be completely acceptable.

I find it offensive. Somehow after Vatican II, the Catholic church just fell apart. We sing 1960s hippy songs and dress like bums. It doesn’t seem to be helping attendance either.

I suppose eventually the powers that be in Rome will figure it out and we’ll take a step or two backwards to where we should have gone in the 60s. If people would keep the pendulum in the middle instead of seeing how far they can swing it, life would be much more gentle.

As far as knowing who John Kerry is, I’m not sure anyone can ever truly know another person. Certainly in the last campaign, there was no indication that Bush would become a megalomaniac out to save the world.

Sigh . . .

wearing ski gear in a church isn’t nearly as bad as the low cut blouses and micro-miniskirts I see girls wearing at mass every Sunday. Now THAT is offensive to me.

I was brought up to dress in my "Sunday best" for mass each week and I still do.

The Church in France is more strict on dressing appropriately, however some still try to take advantage of the casaul clothing styles. In Italy, the priests will really get on your case if you dress in immodest clothes during mass. You cannot enter the Vatican at all in ANYTHING considered immodest. They have the Clothing Police at the entrance to enforce the rules.

I rather like the European Church

SalB/LaVieilleBranch: What were the names of your Church? For some reason, I have the urge to attend. Donerail

donerail, If you attend, and I encourage it, be sure to take your wife. She may keep your mind on the sermon rather than the short skirts!!

My theory about the Bush’s and the Clinton’s being pals is being proven yet again. Mr. Bush gave a tolally sycophantic speach to Clinton, praising him and his rise to power. When I was listening I couldn’t believe it was Bush. I’m telling you Clinton isn’t going to be much help for Kerry this election.

My prediction is that during the DNC Bush’s approval ratings will drop to a new low and then level keep steady. Then when people start trying to find out who Kerry really is. Then he will start getting himself into more bad circumstances. You think Bush doesn’t think on his feet; what to you see Kerry. After that I think Bushs approval ratings will rise. From disgust of voters. Then a few days before the election Kerry will finally leak something out on Bush. I dont know if most of the voters will care because they will think that Kerry is too sleazy to trust. I predict a very low turn out.

Hey, I don’t agree with everything that Bush does, but if you don’t know who the alternative is he could be worse than Bush. History can tell you many times where the people left one person one another worse; particularly in French history.

Vive la vrai France! Vive les États Unis!

I don’t care for Mr. Bush’s policies and all of you know that. However, don’t blame the poor man for what he said at the portrait unveiling. He had to speak. After all, he’s the man in charge. It was a day to honor the good that Mr. Clinton had done. That’s exactly what Bush did . . . honor the good that Clinton did. He has plenty of other opportunities to Clinton bash but this was not the time nor the place.

If nothing else, relate it to Mr. Reagan’s funeral services. You would think the man was a saint to hear the speeches. No one mentioned the Iran Contra scandal or Ollie North at Reagan’s funeral because a funeral is a time to celebrate the good that one did, not to bash him. It was sweetness and light during the funeral week and I don’t think anyone begrudges it in the least. For bashing, it was neither the time nor the place . . .

I wasn’t mintioning it to bash Bush. I was saying it to show a few reasons why Clinton is really, on a social level, behind Bush. Really he is even behind Bush politically for he too thought Sadam had wepons of mass distruction and to save his legacy he has to support Bush on this issue.

I don’t think Bush and Clinton are in cahoots. They are simply part of the power structure. They have a lot of mutual interests and mutual friends (and enemies). They do represent two different views though.

On a social level, they are peers. That doesn’t mean their politics are the same. One’s social level and one’s politics are separate and you can’t ignore either. They are all part of your life.

The latest scuttlebutt says Clinton is going to use his book selling tour to support Kerry. Obviously, it would easily serve both purposes. I suspect Mr. Gore would have done better if he had swallowed his pride and accepted Mr. Clinton’s campaign assistance. Perhaps it will help Mr. Kerry who seems not to be so proud.

Personally, I wish we could hear more about Mr. Kerry’s stand on the issues. He has been rather quiet for an active campaign. I realize he’s been upstaged by the Reagan funeral and several other very newsworthy events including the prisoner abuse scandal, but it still seems that he’s not put forth the effort to make his views known. As the election approaches, hopefully that will change.

SalB: Let me try to help out a little.

Amero-Franc: I don’t know where you were in the nineties, but Bubba Clinton lead this nation thru the greatest period of prosperity that we have ever had. I was rich when Clinton was President. Under Bush, I am struggling, and it is getting more and more difficult. You seem quite concerned with Bubba Clinton’s private life, as are most of the right-wing crackpots in this country. By the way, your spell check feature seems to be acting up again. Donerail

donerail: The only people who are concerned with others’ sex lives are people who aren’t getting any at all.

LaVieilleBranche: That is quite an indictment of the Republican Party. Donerail

We were in Paris during one of the major Clinton sex scandals. They thought it was incredibly funny that anyone was interested in his sex life. Several asked us to explain the interest, and of course, we had no answer. We thought it was more annoying than funny. To us it is something private and certainly not to be paraded in the world press.

I think the media get a bit carried away with their own self importance occasionally . . . more often of late!

Do we really have a "need to know?"

They were interested in his sex life because he lied about it under oath. You seem to forget. I’m not going to bash Clinton on this thread because quite frankly it doesn’t really pertian.

He broke no French law so why would the French care?

I said the French thought it was funny. That doesn’t indicate any particular "care" as you put it. You have it backwards anyway. They were NOT interested in his sex life because he lied about it under oath; he lied under oath because they were interested. That is a whole different story.

They (and I) thought it odd that anyone should be interested in Clinton’s sex life. They (and I) thought it odd that he should be put in a position of having to discuss it and possibly they (note I said possibly) thought any gentleman would lie about it. When one is married and fooling around and confronted with the issue, one lies. The man wasn’t lying about national defense issues, for Pete’s sake. He was trying to keep his private life private and protect both wife and mistress. He shouldn’t have had to say anything so he shouldn’t have been put in the position of telling a lie.

I couldn’t believe the government wasted so much time on so worthless an issue. What did it all have to do with running the nation? It’s not as bad as wasting billions on a war while 87 million Americans don’t have health care and veterans benefits are being cut, but it was still an amazing waste of government money and resources.

"he lied under oath because they were interested."

Do you mean if they weren’t interested he wouldn’t have lied?

He wouldn’t have lied because they wouldn’t have asked the question in the first place, so yes, that is exactly what I meant.

If no one says, "Did you have an affair with Monica Lewinski?" he would not be in the position of having to answer . . . truth or lie. There simply would be no question.

Do Mr. Bush’s lies bother you or are they all right? Just curious.

LaVieilleBranche: Check out SalB’s style. She is totally patient and logical and understanding when explaining things to Amero-franc. Why can’t we be more patient? SalB has a long way to go with Amero-franc. Bill Clinton has a trist in the oval office and the Righties go ballistic. Dutch Reagan deep sixes the Constitution while running the economy into the ground and they think he was the second coming of Jefferson. No wonder the French seem amused by us. Or amazed. Donerail

donerail" I notice that SalB is starting to ask Amero-Franc a few strong questions as I had done in the past. It’s her turn to slap Amero-Franc upside the head. I’m on summer vacation as of June 23 so school is oout for me..no more education of Amero-Franc. This teacher has seen enough stupid students for awhile

SalB,

Duh!, That’s how most people lie under oath; when they get asked the question. They’re not just going to lie for the fun of it.

Amero-Franc: I see SalB is taking up where I left off You forgot to answer her question about Bush’s lies….

Oh come on. Can’t we get off Clinton. Okay, so what if Bush was a little too chummy with him. What does this have to do with the Kerry and Bush election. I’m so sick of Clinton factoring into everything. I’ve got it already. Clinton is dead okay. Gone! He’s just some guy that hangs around and gives the place atmosphere.

Sounds like Clinton exploded in a BBC interview to air tonight, over questions the ‘gutless’ US press has been loathe to probe about Lewinsky. Can you imagine how many copies "My Sex Life" would sell?

b.

I had no idea Kerry spoke fluent French. I guess he wouldn’t be caught dead speaking it in the US publicly. Then again, would Chirac prattle on in English with Bush?

b.

Amero-Frac said: "Bush on the other hand is fluent in Spanish…"

lol! As they say in Texas, NO HE AIN’T.

b.

SalB: "We didn’t dislike London, but we both prefer Paris."

Your descriptions of London are hilarious. To add to it, the British Museum looks like a little shack compared to the Louvre. It’s just rather sparse and fewer antiquties on display than I would have expected. Some might oogle that it’s free, but consider you’ll pay for it at the tacky cafe inside. London’s the second most expensive city in the world; for Americans, it’s more expensive than the Moon.

Agreed, it is dirtier than Paris. Agreed, the traffic is madness. Every car looked as though it were about to collide with the next, head-on! I’m sure the opposing direction of traffic causes bewilderment at first, but the drivers truly have no regard for pedestrians.

b.

You were asking about Bush’s lies. My question is what lies? Bush didn’t lie on anything I know of. There was only a possibility of a lie. He said they had WMDs, but he didn’t say he would find the WMDs. Even if he did lie that doesn’t mean he should be impeached. Clinton broke a law. Bush broke no law. And don’t bring up that international law. I spit on international law! There is no international law. There are just agreements; just agreement between nations. The world have to be a nation in order for there to be international law. This so-called international law is just some thing that Europe flaunts around because they can’t get over that they don’t rule the world anymore. They think everyone should ask them before anything gets done. Why? Well, because they are the predestined diehard rulers of the world. They just can’t get over it. They still can’t get over the crusades either. They constantly try to make back-handed deals with the Arabs and then they think they can tell Israel what to do as if Israel is one of their colonies. They can’t get over it. This is why I’m walking over and canceling LaVieilleBranche’s vote this fall. Or whoever lives in my state.

Sweird: Are you related to Amero-Franc? Your spelling and syntax are quite similar. You "spit on international law?" Now that is an nauseating visual that reflects the type of person you must be. It is indeed disturbing to think that you are old enough to vote. Donerail

Sweird,

I too am not a fan of the name "international law". You are in a way right there isn’t "international law" in the since that they’re really agreements. I think that that might be just semantics because you still should at least try to keep an agreement. So, I’m not sure if that matters. I do, however, agree with you that they are trying to act like a nation.

About the term "I spit on." I think I have heard that term, but it is indigenous to a particular culture. I think perhaps it explains your ethnicity. Although I’m not sure it would explain a few things.

Back to the subject; Notice that Kerry isn’t getting the suport from Clinton. He’s focasing on his book. What was it; "My Life" or "My Struggle"; I cant remember. Again Bush just keeps on praising Clinton. Anyway Kerry just said that he would send more troops to Iraq if he were elected. So, I’m still not sure who Kerry is except that he’s not Bush. He’s in the fog. Then Michael More comes out with his political movie and is getting alot of atention. (Not to mintion that that Alaska Pipline didn’t even happen) If Kerry want’s people to get to know him, it could be that he should make a movie or write a book. Instead of a dedate it could be that we should have a film fest.

Sweird: What lies? how about the entire WMD fiasco? That was a lie to the entire world for the sole reason to bomb Iraq because Sadaam hurt the Bush family ego. The Bush family and their dealings with the Bin Laden family (yes, THAT Bin Laden family) and their dealings with the house of Saud make anything that George Bush does very questionable at the least. If I was a Senator, I’d propose on the senate floor to impeach Bush for lying about the Iraq war. He is directly responsible for many many thousands of deaths, Iraqi and American. If it wasn’t for this "war," Nick Berg, Paul Johnson and that South Korean man wouldn’t have been beheaded. They would be alive today. I’ve SEEN the ENTIRE video of Nick Berg getting beheaded. I saw what was NOT broadcast on the media. Bush is directly responsible for this with his lies and bullsh*t war.

It’s Americans like YOU that make the entire world hate the USA. People like YOU are the reason America has the international problems it has.

You’ll never be able to cancel out my vote, or the vote of any other American, you ignorant loser.

Amero_franc: what an interesting idea, a presidential film fest. Let’s see…what can we document about Bush? Let’s see uncensored footage of the Iraq war, let’s show the Americans bombing the hell out of the Iraqis. Let’s show all the dead and maimed Americans and Iraqis. Let’s show Bush with the Bin Laden family and with the House of Saud, making back room deals worth multi millions of dollars. Don’t forget Cheney and his wheeling and dealings, too.

I can’t wait to see Farenheit 9-11. It should be quite interesting…

Yes, but read Christopher Hitchen’s take on 9/11 at slate.msn.com … there’s no question Moore is an entertainer first, journalist second (the man says it himself). Which, in a way, does a disservice to everybody. Of course I’ll see his movie. Beats Spider Lame 2.

LaVieilleBranche: Why don’t you us what you really think? Amero-franc and Sweird must be related. Ev or they are seeing the same shrink. Even so, between the two of them there is still only a half a brain. For their further enlightenment, they should watch Farenheit 911. It was a big hit at Cannes, LA, and the Big Apple. Sweird should especially like it, actual voice and video from those incompetents in the White House. Donerail

donerail: I could comment on sweird and Amero-Franc, but I’m afraid my comments about those two would get edited out from the forums admin….so I won’t say it…I’ll just email it to you instead

I saw a snippet of Farenheit 9-11 and it showed Bush in a golf cart riding around the golf course and having a marvelous time. Although Moore is an entertainer first, it should be interesting to see what footage he used in his film…

LaVieilleBranche, I don’t think you need to worry about being zapped. You’ve broken the rules often enough and your posts have stayed visible. Under "Terms of Service" above it specifically says, and I quote:

"Attack: "Flaming" or personal attacks are not permitted on this website. Disagreement is not the same as attack. We are people of varied opinions, and will naturally disagree at times. A certain amount of "thick skin" is necessary in any internet forum. Do not take a strong statement of opinion as an attack. But attacks on another poster (as opposed to their argument) violate these Terms of Service. A poster who engages in such personal attacks may be banned from the forums. Personal attack may be defined as any behavior designed to make a poster feel unwelcome on the forum. This would include, for example, racial, ethnic, religious, and sexual slurs, or scorn directed at another poster, or attempts to drive another poster off the message board. Threads with the purpose of criticising or insulting another poster will be removed."

"Scorn directed at another poster" would cover calling someone ignorant, stupid, an idiot or various other remarks that have been made by various people in various threads. Since many of these remarks remain on the Forum, it is obvious that France.com edits with a very light hand. I don’t know what was said, but it must have been pretty blatant to be blipped. I think you can say what you like and not worry.

I wish everyone would take a minute to click on "Terms of Service" above and just review what they agreed to before they posted on the Forum. If Amero-Franc & Sweird had done this, the whole thing would not have happened and donerail would be with us today.

As it says in the TOS, it’s okay to attack the argument; it is NOT okay to attack the person making the argument. Come to think of it, that’s what I’ve been urging for months now. It’s tough being a Mom.

Do you have your photos up and ready to go yet? We’re all waiting impatiently. It might give us something nice to discuss.

"Amero-franc and Sweird"
Woe now wait a minute. When have I called anyone a name? When have I used any type of slur? Come on.

Anyway about More’s movie, when he was being interviewed he said he got most of the info. from the NY times. He was laughed into a reserved state for the rest of the interview. Allot of the plot is based on an Alaska pipeline deal that didn’t even take effect. I must admit though it would be very interesting to see a movie on world events that just happened within months. I know there has been a lot of those type of movies out lately. Most of them end up being very exaggerated, however, I might not mind watching the movie for the entertainment value.

It’s kind of interesting, it’s like Kerry isn’t really in charge of his own camp. There are a whole bunch of little entities that all just want Bush out of office, but aren’t sure what really to do themselves.

My family has been Democrats for a long time and most of them don’t know what a Democrat is anymore. They think it’s lost a motive. I’ll tell you right now, I’m not a Republican either and so far I’m voting for Bush.

"Bubba Clinton lead the nation to the greatest….."
ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Were you asleep during his presidency?

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/Ldotvets/Bubba.html

betyblue: Not kidding at all. Bubba Clinton led us thru the greatest period of prosperity in the nations’s history. Check out the economic figures in Business Week, the Wall St. Journal or any other business/economic publication. It would have even been better if it were not for the Republicans who were so fascinated by his private sex life. Donerail

The thought of Clinton and sex….ewwwwwwww…"no comment"

Don’t ‘cha know it . . . Blee . . .

SalB/LaVieilleBranche: You both seem very excited. Donerail

Very unexcited . . .

SalB/LaVieilleBranche: Yeah, the two of you talk a good line. Donerail

The real reason why more made that movie and doesn’t like the war in Iraq is because his father used to work for general motors. Neither More or his father still has publicly anounced that they don’t still have any investments in GM. You see the war made gass prices go up and that would cost alot of money for More and his father. That is assuming that they have investments. From fill up tests to transportaion to you name it, it all cost GM alot of money.

sweird: I think the Administrator is still censoring your posts. What’s left of your last one doesn’t make any sense. Donerail

donerail:

Sweird’s most recent post is one of a long line of many posts that don’t make any sense. He should drop the "S" in front of his name and call himself for what he is…WEIRD…

Sweird: Do you know if John Kerry could pick Bill Clinton as his running mate? If he can’t, does that mean if Hillary had the nomination that Bill couldn’t be her running mate either? Donerail

Of course Kerry already picked Edwards, but Bill Clinton wouldn’t have accepted. He likes Bush too much. The Clinton’s have really in a left handed way been supporting the war in Iraq.

To show you what I mean yesterday moveon.org wanted to put up a showing on the billboard in Times Square that was against the Iraq conflict. Clear Channel said that they wouldn’t allow them to put it up. Hillary Clinton’s campaign manager said that he agreed with Clear Channel’s decision. If you read Bill Clinton’s new book he reveals that according to his account Iraq still had weapons of mass destruction when he left office.

You will notice that Clinton will not participate in the Kerry Campaign very much. Being one of the most if not the most high profile ex-president, not participating in the Kerry campaign very often is very unprecedented, unless of course you realize that Clinton is not really in favor of the Kerry account which is really just as much Clinton bashing as it is Bush bashing.

Amero-franc: I started to parse or diagram your last sentence in that post to try to figure out what you were trying to say. I finally gave up. I guess I’ll have to chalk it up as your usual mindless drivel. Donerail

I must admit it was rather long; however, there is nothing wrong with the sentence structure. Look it over again and then maybe you’ll get it.

Donerail, you’ve just admitted to parsing and diagramming AF’s post … Aaawww come on, although you’re constantly giving AF a hard time, be honest, how dull your life would be without him !

CRC

crc95: Yes, I have tried to diagram AF’s sentences. I don’t know if it would be less dull without AF, but it would certainly be less confusing. As I alluded to before, AF is not totally useless. He can be used as the bad example. Donerail

This is supposed to be about "John Kerry or George Bush" not about how complicated my sentences are.

Let me try to explain it to you:

"Being one of the most if not the most high profile ex-president,"

That is a Prepositional Phrase. See if you can figure out the rest.

Amero-franc: I cannot figure it out. The best that I can ascertain is that your posts are pure gibberish. Mind numbing rantings. Donerail

You seem to be more afraid of my sentences than you are of The Presedent.

I’m Flattered.

At least that seems to be all you like to write about anymore.

Bonjour! Aussi, I tend to Like Kerry-Edwards. I believe the fellow is Literate, was very much on a GunBoat in the Mekong area…which the French, too, tried to help. And, SalB…I once heard a friend, Bob Donaguy, at LA tennis describe a tall fellow as a "Frog"…. as I was assigned to him as a doubles Podner, I have to say that, you know, I
kind of like many Reptiles…far more pretty than any Texas Armadillos.
Plus, all those signs I saw in the Parisian subway tunnels "Bush est un Couchon"…and "no Blood for Oil", were so "endorsing". I didn’t get down to the Sewers to see what was Grafittied there
as I was late to Mass at Notre Dame. Yes, I will vote Absentee
for John Kerry…and then from California, I shall travel b4 the mortal sin dries, flying United or Air France
over to CDG, take the "A" train and Metro to Confession with that
well-spoken Priest at Notre Dame. It is a Sin in many West USA Dioceses
to Vote for
Kerry…or Barbara Boxer, Mrs. Feinstein(as well as voting against Halliburton funds appropriation). But, what can I do? In
Notre Dame last March, I consulted the statue of St. Joan d’Arc there in the Dark with no Candles flaming, and she seemed to say…..
Vote for Kerry, and Chirac, too!! ( if he gets a 10-day a yr. "hotel residence"
in Houston). As Gov. Mario Cuomo once wrote, to me "Excelsior!"

danairozo,I’m not sure how I came in for the "frog" comment unless you are associating it and me with LA since that’s where I live. I’m sure not from Texas!

BTW, I had dinner with a nun recently and she is strongly for Kerry. She and one of the local priests are loudly for Kerry and we are in a CA diocese. If you want opinions, you just have to know whom to ask. I figure an alive nun is a better consultant than a dead Joan d’Arc.

Mais Bien Sur, SalB…I am sorry if I misunderstood the "Frog" word on Page one…I realize that like in Chicago some people say "euphemisms" to each other if they know each other…it is fun… Though, Here in Visalia, which is Far from Orange County, some Portuguese take umbrage at the "passive put down" Portagee or Portugoose… Visalia has been a touchy place for ages..unless of course, you are in control with your Masonic or Moose lodge pals. Yes, the GOPers still have Barbecues with flaming crosses in Barns toward the foothills….they have names for Irish, and Italians, Mexicans and Jewish etc. And, they have Cheneyesque words for Hillary and EMK and Kerry and Jesse etc…Sal I still like using your Jaune
Photo and webcam following system for France cities..I kept in
file… true, I should approach LIVE clergy, and not just in hurried
Confessions. I just meant that I felt more fearless and less intimidated in Notre Dame, than I do in parts of Southern Cal or my Redneck area. Since my Pastor died here last Jan., lately with the "new" more right-loving staff it seems that consulting some LIVE priest might get me reported to Cardinal Mahony or etc for Excommunication here in Calif…as is going on in the Colorado Springs Diocese right
now.
"Visalia stronghold".

SalB: If I may speak for tens of thousands (if not millions) of innocent (well, mostly innocent) (well, at least we were young and maybe innocent) male Catholic School students: We were terrorized by the nuns and I can state categorically if the nuns go for Kerry, we will have to re-evaluate our position and maybe vote for Bush or flee to LaFrance. BTW, Happy Bastille Day. Donerail

Allors…I almost forgot, HAPPY BASTILLE DAY!!
You know, when I was in Paris near Gare Lyon, checking out a Budget car at that station, I looked around past the Holiday Inn for that
Bastille. I was wondering, "Where is La Guillotine"…

danairozo, I didn’t go all the way back to page one earlier today so I just checked and when I said "frog," I was referring to Kermit. Kermit is a very famous frog on Sesame Street, a kids’ television show that our children watched to the point of driving me crazy many years ago. I believe it is still going. At any rate, the person asking the question used the screen name Kermit and so I referred to him as a frog, meaning Kermit, the Sesame Street Frog. It seemed odd to me that a Sesame Street character would be asking about French politics . . . or any politics, for that matter. It’s a children’s show.

I forgot that it is also a euphemism . . . and I think a not nice one.

Oops, I forgot. I know exactly what it’s like in Visalia, CA. Our youngest daughter lives in Fresno and she says the same thing about Fresno. She is now in Sacramento and loves it there. Perhaps you could move!!

donerail, All nuns do not terrorize people. I know lots of people who have fond memories of nuns from their school days. My husband liked most of the nuns he had in grade school. Our kids liked all their nuns except one (whose name fortunately escapes me right now). I have several friends who are Episcopal nuns and they are wonderful people, compassionate, understanding and very forgiving . . . much more so than I could ever be. I also did my practice teaching in a Catholic Girls high school and the nuns there were mostly very nice women. I’m sure there were a couple flakes, but there are those every place.

Perhaps you really were a terror . . . they saw the Harley coming and were trying to prevent it . . .

I certainly wouldn’t recommend voting for Bush for that reason! Help us here.

Happy Bastille Day everyone.

danairozo: Welcome back! We haven’t seen you in the forums in a LONG time…

I was logged into 2 french sites and I got to watch the Bastille Day fireworks (next to the Tour Eiffel) in a live video stream..well, as much of a ‘steam" as i could get with a small modem here…It was cool to see them turn off the lights to the Eiffel Tower, and then the fireworks went off at the Trocadero.. It brings mack many memories. This is the first summer in many years that I’m home in the NYC area during July/August. Usually I fly out to Paris on July 1. I was able to capture some of the grand finale images with the webcam and save them to my HD 🙂

Tomorrow (July 16) is the Bastille Day Bal for French speaking peoples in the NYC area. It’s being held at 4 different locations. Just choose your atmosphere. We start off at the Pierre Hotel and work our way down the 3 other locations, all within 3 blocks of eath other on the East Side. It should be a blast! 🙂 (No jeans, please…proper dress required).

If I remember to take my small digital cam, I’ll put photos online of the parties for all to enjoy

Merci, LaVielle…I know I was in other avenues and not here for a bit.
and, Sal, I am very sorry I didn’t read through that whole page one
Article about Kermit and Miss Piggy and all. I should stick to the Jaune webcams of Paris and Marseille..lol.

I have been studying a visit to Philippines and maybe China…I really liked Singapore last September. And, Visalia and Fresno-Clovis are
getting better…(sourire)..I just took that Congressman Dooley sticker
off my bumper, and I no longer get tail gating Soovs and Pickups
doing their "intimidation superiority" numbers.

Greetings American citizens,

So how do you all feel about that Chimp / Kerry Vietnam crap ? Do you think it could do any serious damage to our good friend Kerry ? I’m eager to know. Thanks.

CRC

I would think so. Kerry is really burying himself up to the neck on this one.

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=40125

ELECTION 2004
Kerry backs off
on medal claim
After WND story on journal discrepancy spokesman says no enemy fire ‘possible’

——————————————————————————–
Posted: August 24, 2004
3:43 p.m. Eastern

By Art Moore
© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com

After WorldNetDaily’s report last week of a discrepancy in John Kerry’s personal account of his first Purple Heart, his presidential campaign has backed off on claims that he was wounded from enemy fire.

WND reported that nine days after Kerry claims he was hit by hostile fire in 1968, he wrote in his journal as he set out on a subsequent mission, "A cocky feeling of invincibility accompanied us up the Long Tau shipping channel because we hadn’t been shot at yet, and Americans at war who haven’t been shot at are allowed to be cocky."

The Kerry campaign has not responded to repeated requests from WND for a response, including a call this morning. But yesterday, Fox News host Major Garrett confronted John Hurley, national coordinator of Veterans for John Kerry, asking him on camera if it is possible the first Purple Heart did not result from an incident involving enemy fire.

Hurley replied, "Anything is possible … ."

With three Purple Hearts, Kerry was allowed according to Navy regulations to leave Vietnam after only four months of his 12-month tour.

The Kerry campaign’s admission to charges in "Unfit for Command," the newly published book by Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, is not the first.

Two weeks ago, Kerry was forced to revise his decades-long contention he was on a secret mission in Cambodia on Christmas Eve 1968. And last week, the Kerry campaign admitted a key contention of a story supporting the Democratic National Convention theme of "No Man Left Behind" was wrong. Kerry closed the convention with a story in which he claimed that five swiftboats fled on March 13, 1969, after a mine explosion and only he came back to rescue Lt. James Rassman. His campaign now is admitting that he fled and the rest stayed, before he later returned for Rassman.

Conflicting account

Kerry, who served as commander of a Navy swiftboat, has insisted he was wounded by enemy fire Dec. 2, 1968, when he and two other men took a smaller vessel, a Boston Whaler, on a patrol north of his base at Cam Ranh Bay. The conflicting journal entry is cited in Douglas Brinkley’s book about Kerry’s Vietnam service, "Tour of Duty."

While the date of Kerry’s subsequent four-day excursion on PCF-44 [Patrol Craft Fast] is not specified, Brinkley notes it commenced when Kerry "had just turned 25, on Dec. 11, 1968," which was nine days after the incident in which he claimed he had been wounded by enemy fire.

In "Unfit for Command," authors John O’Neill, who took over command of Kerry’s boat, and Jerome Corsi assert the wound for which Kerry received his first of three Purple Hearts actually was caused by him firing an M-79 grenade launcher too close, "causing a tiny piece of shrapnel (one to two centimeters) to barely stick in his arm."

The authors, who rely on the eyewitness accounts of more than 60 men who served with Kerry, say Kerry’s initial requests to receive a Purple Heart for the wound were flatly rejected.

In "Tour of Duty," Brinkley quotes Kerry as saying he and his comrades were "scared s—less" that night, thinking fishermen in sampans might be Viet Cong.

When some of the sampan occupants began unloading something on the beach, Kerry lit a flare, causing the startled men on shore to run for cover. That’s when Kerry says he and the other Americans began firing.

Said Kerry in "Tour of Duty":

My M-16 jammed, and as I bent down in the boat to grab another gun, a stinging piece of heat socked into my arm and just seemed to burn like hell. By this time one of the sailors had started the engine and we ran by the beach, strafing it. Then it was quiet.
O’Neill and Corsi, however, claim there is no evidence whatsoever Kerry took any enemy fire that night.

Patrick Runyon was operating the engine on the Boston whaler during the incident.

"I can’t say for sure that we got return fire or how [Kerry] got nicked," Runyon is quoted as saying in "Unfit for Command." "I couldn’t say one way or the other. I know he did get nicked, a scrape on the arm."

Wrote O’Neill: "In a separate conversation, Runyon related that he never knew Kerry was wounded. So even in the [Boston] Globe biography accounting, it was not clear that there was any enemy fire, just a question about how Kerry might have been hit with shrapnel."

The book also asserts another one of Kerry’s Purple Hearts resulte from a self-inflicted wound.

crc95: As time wears on and people get to know more about those other Navy personnel and their true motivations, I think Kerry will get the better of this firefight. As you can see from the article that kermit found – and kermit sounds like he believes the WND as a source of true Gospel – the best those decrepit folks can do is to try and parse sentences of events that happened a long time ago. Not only are they parsing sentences but they are also trying to re-build an hour-by-hour chronicle of the exploits of a young Navy officer from Yale. I’ll tell you one thing from my personal experience: if you were not a graduate of one of the Military Academies, you were looked down upon by those that were. Don’t get me wrong there, either, Academy grads were militarily more competent – but they still looked down upon us. And if you were a graduate from one of the eastern "elite" universities (i.e, any Ivy League, Little Ivy League, or Liberal Arts school) you were more than immediately suspect of being a Commie or Cong sympathizer. Now, put that into the backdrop of an evil war perpetrated by lying skunks like Johnson and Nixon and you have some fodder for disagreement. I might also add that Southern troopers didn’t like Northern troopers or anyone that had even a remote connection to the Kennedys. I can just see those rednecks and racists boiling as Kerry was receiving awards and decorations. Now, when reason prevails, and the average American awakens to what it must have been like for a young kid to VOLUNTEER for duty in a hostile environment. What it must have been like to actually perform duty in a hostile environment. What is must be like to be frightened most of the time. What it must be like to see people get killed. Forget the medals. Just think of doing that much. Kerry went on to a career in politics and a service record is important in that regard. Does it mean that he is more qualified or unqualified to be President as a result of it. Possibly more qualified, personally I would think so. I wonder what The Chimp did after he got out of Yale. Can someone shed some light on his qualifications from age 22 to 42? But more importantly, to judge the character of a Public Servant I would be more impressed by Kerry’s military service that I would of The Chimp. And when you compare that yet again to the Real President Cheney and there is no comparison. The swine that are trying to discredit Kerry are the same swine that did a similar number on McCain. That should give you an idea of what the neo-cons and Religious Right is all about in this country. But thats OK. Come November the neo-cons and the religious right are going to be very unhappy. And disservedly so.

Donerail

I’ll be honest with you Donerail, I really don’t think Kerry’s war record should be judged one way or the other. I think what he did after the war should be. If I were a betting man, in November, the votes for Kerry will be in the minority.

I agree that it’s possible that Kerry may lose in November. I would hope to be in Paris casting an absentee ballot at that time…I wish.
Americans who vote for BushJr. will be asking for More of the same…1000 people with Hispanic surnames mostly, dying. 3000 or more Service men maimed and not "counted as casualties". But, you see, the Barrels of oil will roll in for the SUV’s (Not Renault Cleos here ya know). Bullies usually win.

Donerail : thanks for the long post, with which I agree for the most part. Your personal insight is very valuable in this matter of course. We all agree that Kerry should be honored for just being there, and trying to do his duty. There should be no point in trying to, as we say in French, chercher la petite bête, which means, to look for the tiny worthless irrelevant details.

But, the problem remains : I’m afraid Kermit and danaroizo have a point, this campaign, and Kerry’s weak cry-baby defense in response, could do him some harm.

Oh well, we’ll see. I just hope he could wake up a little and become Super Kerry !

CRC

crc95: Kerry is very good at politics and planning. His ineptitude at times I think is part of the plan. At least I hope it is. Donerail

There was a very interesting column in the NY Time today by a woman whose father had been killed in VietNam. The reporter was only 9 years old when they got the news. When she grew up and became a reporter, she tried to find out what really happened to him as there were conflicting reports. She found and interviewed many people and read many reports and came to the conclusion that everyone who was there had a different story to tell. The only thing she discovered with certainty was that her father was a very good man.

I suspect the truth about Kerry can’t be known simply because no one, including Kerry himself, knows what happened. We all experience and remember things differently and this is no exception.

I’m much more interested in what the candidates plan to do AFTER the election. Somehow that seems more relevant. Furthermore, we all know how much of a hero Bush was during the war, which is to say, none.

He did finally tell all the outside groups (called 527s) to stop advertising. He wouldn’t single out the FastBoat advertisers. He asked them all to withdraw their ads. I think, under the circumstances, it was the politically expedient thing to do . . . the chickens way out, but at least the ads will be pulled (if anyone bothers to listen to him). It’s going to be an interesting election!

SalB, this is all very true. Like you say, even Kerry may not be able to tell the story himself. It’s hard when you’ve been under so much stress and pressure to have a cool calm recollection of what happened afterwards. Although I have never experienced any form of combat, I work for a law enforcement administration and I know that when comes the heat, you try to deal with it first the best you can, and think about what you’re doing later !

CRC

In the US there is a funny game we play as children. We call it "Telephone." You get about 20 people to sit in a circle. Someone whispers a sentence to the person on his right. That person whispers it to the person on his right, the next to the person on his right until each person has listened to the sentence once and told it to the next person. The last person to hear it has to say it out loud. Then the one who started it has to say the original sentence out loud. It is usually hysterical because what comes out at the end is nothing even vaguely resembling what started. People don’t hear it correctly; people don’t remember it correctly; people don’t speak it correctly. It’s just a giant funny fiasco.

When it’s a game, it’s fun. When it happens in real life, it can have very serious consequences. Add that to seeing and experiencing an event differently and you have a PR disaster to be milked.

I hope Bush gets the 527s stopped because no one can control them and they seem to do whatever they want. It’s not going to help either candidate and neither candidate can plan because they don’t know what these independent groups are going to do next. It also diverts the campaign from the real issues, i.e., the war and the economy with all the relevent ramifications.

SalB: In my neighborhood we played some other games. In any event, Liveshot Kerry better lite em up at the American Legion convention or we will all be attending Revival Meetings shortly. Donerail

Donerail… I hope you’re right. Four more years of this routine, gosh, is 51 too old to be drafted again? So that SUV and Lincoln drivers
can maintain their "needs". California’s once-pretty coastline is so
full of cars and SUVS and discourteous drivers…it makes the Parisian
Freeways look so "law abiding" and considerate.

I would like to make a point abount the economy biting.

Most of you may know the American economy sucks right now but few of you are the victims of it. I am only 16 and am the bread winner of my household. Sad,no? My mother was put out of work not by the economy but because her job made her mentaly unstable. Now, she is trying to find a job but cant even get employed with a standby till she can get a real job. Because of this we had the joy of finding out that unemployment now olny lasts 17 weeks instead of 2 years as when Bush first came into office. Now i have to try and keep my on family alive with the 2k I have in my savings account from my work over the summer(that was intended to purcase a crapy car with).

Ya, know everything seems a liitle more expensive when you have to pay for it:
Diabetes testing for your cat: $167
Learning that he is healthy: Both joyous and agrivating
Paying for your own lunch at school: $1.75 a day
Unemployment benefits: $0
How much I make: $6 hrs.(plus a meager amount of tips)
The economy on W’: negative growth
For sickness, food, and unexpected expenses theres my savings account.

For everything else there’s Master Card, which by the way has a 25% interest rate(you really do pay for it).

Side note: Although my post has a sarcastic tone this really is a true story sadly. I find that laughter helps stave off depression.

Side note: Luckly my mother’s been keeping a retirment account which we will usse to pay the bills for as longs as it lasts.

hyperion: Hang in there. You are learning some hardcore values early in life. (Your grammar is very good, by the way, so your schooling seems to be working.) It is a tough situation with the family. All I can offer is that you work hard and avail yourself of all that the various safety nets have to offer. Your wages by the way seem to be on the same scale that I earned at your age. Things were cheaper but I also only made $1.30 per hour. I did learn the value of the dollar and the value of an education. Its never going to comfortable living in or from the Public Sector.

Donerail

danairozo: Cheer up! Things will improve dramatically once Kerry gets a real economy rolling again. He will also have the environment as a priority. I sympathize with you having to put up with those Californian drivers. I see an occasional one here in the Boston area. They do stand out. Donerail

hyperion: I’m sorry to hear about your family’s situation. Some of us here might be more financially stable right right now, but we’ve all had hard luck stories, such as no health insurance for many years, working a succession of multiple part-time jobs with no benefits, being told that "we don’t hire women, they’re a distraction", being paid 40% less because you’re female, etc. It happens to everybody. Welcome to the USA.

doneril: This past weekend, some idiot in a pick-up truck threw crap out of the passenger side window and onto my car on purpose. He had been tailgating me extremely close, hoping to force me off the road because I wouldn’t drive faster (I was already going 10 miles over the speed limit). A few minutes later, after I had moved over, He got near me, aimed his gas-guzzler next to my car and threw crap out the window right onto my car on purpose, then drove off at 100 mph down the Garden State Parkway. Imagine the accident he could of caused, with everybody going 70/75 mph!

Where is a NJ State Trooper when you need one?

I am very sorry about your Car, LaVielle…and such an attack on your fine self. I hope things go better there, and that those people will receive their just rewards very very Soon.

LvB: That had to be frightening. It wasn’t a Black Ford 150 Lightening, was it? Donerail

Hyperion, working in the health care field I’ve learned and you may want to look into this before it’s necessary, you often get more services paid for on medicaid than with regular medical insurance. Unfortunately, people don’t find this out until their deeply in debt, look into what services are available. I know how hard it is to have had to work numerous jobs to make ends meet, hopefully you would only need some extra help for a limited period of time until things turn around for you. Good luck.

Donerail, I’m almost starting to panic. You promised me that JFKerry would win by a ‘slam dunk’. Well it’d better be the case. Cos right now they are saying Chimp is way ahead, benefiting from all the hype around the RNC, some good results with the economy, and that scary thing in Putinland. I guess he’ll grab some gains as well with the coming 9/11 commemoration. And meanwhile, I don’t hear a thing from JFKerry. What is he doing ? When will he FINALLY start his campaign ??

Better not fail this one.

CRC

donerail: my car wasn’t damaged. They poured liquids all over the hood/windshield of my car at 70 mph on the Garden State Parkway. What a**holes!

Whoever wins the presidential election better win by a landslide, or else it will be a legal war between Bush and Kerry that will drag our country down in the mud.

Bonjour! well, I just read all of the posts and it’s very interesting how different everybodie’s opinion is! Personally, I think that it doesn’t matter who wins the election this year, they are both the same. I have been divorced and a single mother for almost a year now, and eversince, I have been paying higher taxes! Can you believe it!! My 33,000.00 dollar salary puts me at a higher tax bracket! Trust me, I need all the help I can get! I am a register Republican, but I can vote either way. It seems to be a sin to be a republican in this forum and that saddens me, politics and religion only divide people. It’s hard to know what Kerri will do as president, I don’t think he has a clear view of where he wants to lead the country, I am willing to hear him out. He is digging his own grave right now. I also hate the war in Iraq! but we can’t change the fact that it happened and we should try to make the best of it..what that is …I have no clue!! Maybe we should ask the Iraqui people. Right now, I am feeling very sad…yup…a french guy is breaking my heart and I think I am inlove with him. I only have my self to blame! So…be nice to me today! I love France..I really do! I fell inlove with her the moment I got off the plane and Lyon is and forever will be my special place! BTW…I am starting french classes in January and I hope you all can help me. I want to be fluent in French because I would love to move to France someday, but it seems the only way right now is to marry a french man. It would be really nice if we could all meet in a chatroom…anybody up to the challenge?

Hello myfarside,

Yeah Lyon is France’s best town for sure, no contest, but for some reason the people in this forum won’t believe me. I guess it’s because they’re all shallow American tourists who are attracted by the Paris shiny tacky bullcrap like moth to a flame.

If you want to move and settle in here, I wrote a post in here a while ago that sums up French regulations on immigration, you might want to have a look at it.

See, I don’t know if these threads are anti-republican. I respect Republicans and what they believe in, I just don’t think the Chimp in Chief and his gang of so-called ‘neo-conservatives’ ARE indeed conservative. They’re just a bunch of thugs with an agenda of their own. And a very dark one.

CRC

Very fine statement, CRC… neo-conservatives Chimps and Nean-derathals…lol. I wish I had spent some time in Lyon, to see and experience what you mean. I truly am a Moth though..I love the Paris architecture and Notre Dame and Sacre Coeur. I was really interested in Exploring Marseille…people who are here in California (ie Armenians) have had relatives who where at that "crossroads" years ago. Have you ever seen SaarBrucken, Germany (on the Border past Nancy)…I was thinking of looking at that too.

Myfarside, This will really surprise donerail, but I’m a registered Republican too. I honestly can’t remember ever voting for a Republican but I’m registered as one I guess because my entire family have always been Republicans. I like the feeling that I can vote in the Primary against the creepiest Republicans. If I were a Democrat, I couldn’t vote in the Republican Primary. Silly, but there has to be some voice of reason in the party or they would go completely off the conservative deep end.

I must admit that the last three years, I have seriously considered changing my party affiliation just because I’ve been so angry with all the stupid arrogant things Bush has done. I can’t believe he is going up in the polls again. Of course, since last week was the RNC, he got a big boost. Now the fight begins! At least Kerry came out swinging on this one. It’s about time he started to take this campaign seriously. I just hope he did it in time.

crc95, You probably won’t believe this either, but my favorite city in France is Dijon. I really don’t like cities very much anyway so we spend most of our time out in the country when we’re in France. We’ve never been to Lyon. It just hasn’t been on our way to wherever we are going, but after reading all the glowing reports here, we need to make it a priority in the near future. (If only it weren’t a city!)

crc95: I see you’re putting the moves on Myfarside and danairozo all in the same post. Wow. I must agree with you about Lyon. It doesn’t have the glitz of Paris but it does have character. Sort of like Boston in relation to New York.

SalB: Stop panicing. How many times do I have to tell you. The Chimp is getting a bounce from the Convention as would be expected. Liveshot Kerry is not the brightest bulb in the tree but things are going ok. He will clean Bushes clock in the debates and Darth Vader Cheney will disattract a lot of people as well. Somewhere along the line Nader will toss his support to Kerry. Your being a Republican must be a very well guarded secret amongst your teacher bretheren.

Myfarside: I would offer a few suggestions to improve things. First, change your afflilation to Democrat. The only folks who should be registered republicans are the filthy rich and the Bible Thumpers. Second, get a CPA to review your tax situation. There is no way that you should be paying higher taxes. Third, cheer for the Red Sox as that will alleviate the pain the French guy is causing you. (BTW, I share your views on Iraq.)

Donerail

donerail, My teacher friends all knew I was a Republican. They always started a discussion with, "I can’t believe you’re a Republican" and then continued to talk. I can’t imagine why they said that.

Our youngest daughter thinks the debates will take care of Kerry’s problems too. I think she has too much faith in the American public. Firstly, most of them won’t watch the debates. Secondly, the ones who watch will hear what they want to hear and thirdly, if Kerry sounds intelligent, they will hate him. It’s better to speak in simple sentences and cliches and Kerry isn’t very good at that. It also helps if you can lie with a straight face. I don’t know if Kerry can do it or not, but I’m sure he can’t do it as well as Bush. I really think the debates will make the situation worse for Kerry. I sincerely hope our daughter is right and I am wrong. As you can see, I’m far more cynical than she.

She did her first year of college at the local university and was living with us during the last campaign so we watched the debates together. We sat through the entire thing and then listened as the media interviewed the man in the street. It sounded like they had listened to an entirely different debate than the one we heard. We just looked at each other and said, "Did they hear the same debate we did" Honestly, people hear what they want to hear. They have a listening comprehension problem . . . big time!

Also, you need to remember that the Bush crowd fights dirty. They will manage to pull something out of the hat to make Kerry look like filth right before the election when he doesn’t have time to repute it. I’m a bit cynical about the election process.

Hit Barnes & Noble this weekend. Upon entering they have a selection of political books recently released. There are quite a few very revealing books about the subterfuge that has gone on in this administration. I think one is even called "The Secret Presidency" or something like that. When crc95 says the present administration has "a very dark agenda," he is definitely correct.

who in here isn’t that surprised SalB is a Republican ? Raise your hand

I like Dijon a lot too. I’ve not been there in a long while though. But you know, Dijon is like a Lyon satellite, bearing some of its influence. I LOVE the pain d’épices they make there. Oh my, I need to find a way to order some online.

CRC

SalB: I can see where it must be difficult living out there. In Massachusetts we see things much more clearly. I guess it has always been that way. People will watch the debates. For sure the people who vote will watch the debates. Watching The Chimp is always fairly entertaining. I have a tape of his speech that had one of his best memorable lines: "We will restore chaos in Iraq no matter what the cost."

crc95: I think you would probably like a local favorite here: Fenway Franks. Donerail

crc95…Salut, comment ca va?

I read your column about living in France, it looks pretty difficult to get a work permit and to even find a job! I know I need to speak the language fluently, and I am starting classes in January @ GVSU, then, I will take a business class ( International Business ). I am fluent in Spanish also, and I hope that speaking three languages in France will help me, although my so called ex-boyfriend told me that it is no so special to speak 3 languages because a lot of people do so. Is that true? I want to live in Lyon, I fell inlove with your city! I would rather go there before I go to Paris!!! I would love to go next year, but, I would have to go alone, the only people I know in Lyon are my ex-boyfriend’s friends and I am not sure if they could welcome me in their place! The reason he broke up with me is because of the distance, he said that he needed more than just talking in the internet or seeing each other twice a year, I believe that if you love someone, really love someone, you can not let the distance come between 2 people. He was so nice and so sweet to me while I was in Lyon! I really thought that he loved me and that we had something special. We had the most romantic dinner at this very nice restaurant called " Les Loges "
it was amazing! I loved the Foie Gras! Have you ever been there crc?
Anyway, I don’t want to get off the subject but he really hurt me and broke my heart into a million pieces! I have only my self to blame! I just hope that I can heal my heart and maybe, just maybe I can love again…nothing against american man, but I don’t want to marry or date americans, been there and done that. I would love to find a French man that can truely love me and whom I can love with all my being….oh my God!! it sounds as though I am advertising!! Yikes!! I am not! I really hope that Kerri wakes up soon, I would like to see what his plan to lead the country is, and how it would help me, but, I am afraid that Bush really did him in at the RNC.. I will refrain from calling him names, I believe everybody needs to be treated with respect even if you disagree with their point of view. I find it very offensive as a human being, so forgive me everybody but that’s how I was brought up. My mother always told me that when I pointed my finger at someone, four fingers were pointing right back at me. I think that this forum is full of intelligent people…( most of you anyway ) The good thing about living in America is that we have choices and we can make a choice this coming November..right now I belong to the party of the "undecided" I am hoping that Kerri will convence me to vote for him. question for everybody…what are the difference between Americans and French. would love to hear your opinion!! I will tell you what I observed in France and how Americans and some Brittish people that were staying at my hotel behaved and the comments they made…( it really opened my eyes ).
Can’t wait to hear from everybody! Tchow!!

lol Donerail!!! I don’t know about changing my party affiliation to Democrat, I rather register as an Independent. About those Red Sox…well, I was rooting for them last year, they are truely cursed! sorry!! btw…I was in Boston last year and I really liked it, but, no city in America compares to my beloved Lyon!!!how I wish I was there right now!!( sigh ).

crc…where do I find french food in America, I ate smoked duck, at least that’s the best translation my ex could find…it almost looks like bacon, but it’s not. We would make sandwhiches on baguette bread, with fromage de chevre, tomatoe, and lettuce ( my mouth is watering ) he also cooked magret de canard for me with wild rice and red wine sauce. I bought a whole duck, you can’t find duck fillet in America, sadly! I watched him cook the magret and I think I can do it. I also bought the Julia Child’s cook book " Mastering the art of French cooking" is it any good?…I hope so, I paid 50 dollars for it! You see, I am very serious about your culture and moving to France. I should have been born French! It’s very strange, but I felt at home in Lyon, as though I had been there all my life…I feel so lost in America! and so, so lonely!! anybody in Lyon care to adopt me?…well, I think I have said way too much!! I decided I am done with dating, will concentrate in learning french and finding a job in Lyon..maybe I will see you there crc.. Bonne Journee!

Donerail : isn’t Fenway Franks a baseball stadium ?? What does this have to do with anything, and especially me ?? Didn’t I give you that Homer Simpson quote before : I had never realized how boring baseball can be without beer

Myfarside : thank you for your wonderful and nonetheless justified comments on Lyon. I know Les Loges, because well, I just happened to work there a zillion years ago ! I’m sorry that you miss France and Lyon so badly, maybe you’ll eventually get over it once you start to move on, to forget about your ex and to go back to your every day routine. As you saw, there aren’t many legal ways to move in to France. One thing you could try is ask for a position as an english teacher, but you’d have to have a college degree of some sort. What you could also do is wait for Chimp in Chief to win his reselection in Nov., and then come in here as a political refugee. That might work. I know some people on this forum are already planning on doing this.

CRC

hehe….CRC95. I like that idea, too. I wanna be a "Political Refugee" by next March. The way Kerry’s health is going, and Mr. Clinton about to have heart surgery…we may have to put up Donerail as the Presidential alternative. I could teach English or Piano or le Tenis etc. Have degree. I will find a fine fellow to marry my widow mother here, and I will be right over. Italy is pretty, but I don’t want to live there. Germany just seems like lots of cold weather everywhere, but nice folks.

crc95, I think the Fenway Franks that donerail is referring to are hot dogs served at Fenway park. Americans call hot dogs franks. I don’t know why we do this but we do. A French waiter tried desperately to explain to us the difference between saucisse and sausage because my husband loves saucisse and hates hot dogs (which our waiter was interpreting as sausage). I don’t know if this holds true all over France or it was just one waiter up in the Alps near Grenoble. I’m sure donerail will clarify this but I suspect he was referring to a "special" hot dog/weiner/sausage/whatever you call it.

Regarding Dijon, there is a boulangerie called the Royal Pain which is a really cute play on words if you speak English. Royal Pain (bread) or Royal Pain (as in a pain in the neck or a nuisance). We even took a picture of it because it was so funny. They were closed so I can’t comment on the quality of their bread.

Why did you think I was a Republican? Just curious.

Ha, senior moment. I just remembered why we call hot dogs "franks." It is short for frankfurter . . . good old American German. Until about 10 years ago Germans were the largest minority group in the US and they have had an incredible influence over our language.

Short for Frankfurter, I was gonna say it. We say Saucisses de Francfort here. Good with the choucroute. Yum.

About you being a Rep : dunno, just this feeling I had

CRC

MyFarSide: Lyon is very nice, but as you observed they do not have the Red Sox. You are very passionate and that is good. It is a very special time of year right now. Go Sox. Donerail

French Franks. I like that. I love choucroute . . . German ancestry on my father’s side! (Perhaps Bush could rename hotdogs Freedom dogs!)

I wish you luck with the language class at GVSU, Michigan? I will say though I think you would learn the language much faster by immersing yourself in the culture. When my family moved to Dusseldorf when I was a child noone except my father spoke German. He traveled for business so that left my other, two sisters and myself in an uncomfortable situation. We all learned the language quickly though cause basically we had no choice and used it everyday.

Donerail : the reason Lyon hasn’t got the Red Sox is because Olympique Lyonnais kicked their sorry azzes a long time ago (before you were even born) and so they left for some non-violent, flower-power place. You shouldn’t even mention them.

CRC

crc95: I can see you are very jeolous. It must be difficult not having the Red Sox. Donerail

Amero-franc …? is this you ???

CRC

YAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWN

well…hello

Trust me, if I could move to France tomorrow…I would, in a heartbeat!..I know that if I could live in France for 6 month and just immerse my self in the language, I would learn it rather quickly. I am very good with languages, I actually taught my self English in less than six month. Right now, I am trying to cook only french food at home and my kids are loving it..I didn’t mention before, I have 2 girls, 15 and 11. I hope I win the lotto pretty soon! I would buy a home in Lyon, no doubt about it. And yes, I am going to Grand Valley State University in January. Are you from Michigan? I am very excited about it!!!

crc…..do you think I could actually do that? Let’s see….I am afraid of the next 4 years if Bush wins, or Kerri for that matter, the Americans I work with are very jealous of me, I am a threat to them, they just can’t believe the fact that I am latin and well educated, so they make my life miserable sometimes! Can those be grounds to seek political asyllum in France? I hope so!!!! and I do apologize for my pity party the other day, I realized now that it is his lost, not mine! So, I am ready to move on. I am hoping to be able to go back to Lyon next year….are there any exchange family programs in France…sort of like the student exchange program? Since I don’t know anybody in Lyon, maybe a family could adopt me for a few days! that’s an idea! Anybody ever thought of it? if you know of any such program, do let me know asap!! Tchow

LVB….do you travel to France alone?

Yes, Virginia, There is a Santa Claus. For those who want justice for the smear attacks on Kerry, go to Moveon.org (originated by either Ben or Jerry or Ben and Jerry’s, can’t remember which) and see what is happening. A 537 by the name, Texans for Truth is trying to raise money to get ads on TV. Actual reservist in Bush’s unit who will testify that "they never saw him" when he was suppose to be at Guard Unit.

For those of you who truly want Kerry to get elected and have not volunteered to help his campaign, sent e-mails or messages, contributed money NOW is the time to help get the Democratic Parties’s candidate back on top. Donations can be as little as $25.00. Kerry raised 1 million on line in June by donations from internet donors with the average donation being $108.00.

With Clinton being laid up for the next two months, we need a sensation to boost the rating polls back in our direction. Now is the time Donerail and others who want Kerry in office.

I am afraid that America can’t withstand another four years of George Bush and his neocon’s. They have just about destroyed us in less than four years…

ikorrellim : marry me.

CRC

Hi,

Myfarside: I’m discovering everyday a bit more of this site, and I’ve just read your four o five last messages, and you seem to really like France, and mainly Lyon.
As a french man, I can only agree saying we’ve a wonderfull country. I don’t know Lyon but if you’ve time on your next journey, go and visit Toulouse, mainly if you like "Foie Gras, Magret de Canard, Brochette de Coeur de canard, Salade de gésiers confits, Pousse Rapière and Armagnac…".( The best time to go there is in june.)
Now, I just wanted to tell you to be carefull before travelling definitively to France: When I began to travel to Brazil, I found this country marvellous, and fell in love with Rio de Janeiro. Each time I’ve been in Rio, I was feeling as happy as you in Lyon. My last time in Rio was in July, with someone who told me he didn’t like Rio without having been there one only time, and that nothing could convence him to like this city. I bet the contrary, and… I’ve lost!I should have let him at the hotel, because he never stoped to compare every place we went to another place he had been and, of course, was nicer, cleaner, etc… Just add a cloudy weather, a bit cold ( 18°C ), a taxi who wanted to fool us ( but it’s usual in Rio ), I also wanted to leave that city for ever.
All that story to say that the place where you go is less important than the persons you go there with… So, be carefull because you seem to be in love with Lyon, I wouldn’t like you to hate France next time you go there because of somebody " qui t’aurais gâché le voyage" ( my english is reaching its limits but you speak french, don’t you?).
My father says that " il ne faut pas jeter le bébé avec l’eau du bain", remember this sentence if once somebody make you feel bad in a place you loved.
see you in France maybe,
Oh, I was going to forget: VOTE KERRY!

il ne faut pas jeter le bébé avec l’eau du bain

Montjoly, Thank you. I was trying to write that recently and didn’t know if it would be used in French and not sure exactly how to say it. You do use it! Thank you.

Montjoly….would you marry me? I do love Lyon, but I would love to travel to Niece and Toulouse, I actually checked living in Toulouse and working there. True, my ex lives in Lyon currently, but that’s no the only reason why I like it, yes, there are a lot of great memories and I am sure if I went back to Lyon it would be bittersweet.
Toulouse is on my list of places where I could live. If I am not mistaken…isn’t Toulouse Seattles’ sister city? I have never been to Rio de Janeiro, I am sure it is beautiful. Have you ever been to my country? The Bay islands in Honduras are breath taking, there are only untouched beaches, with few tourists, great food, entertainment, people, etc. If you like scuba diving, then you must go there. I would love to see you in Toulouse, I don’t know anybody there, so it’s a little intimadating going alone. I like to dance, to eat, art, poetry, ballet, and I know Toulouse has all of that and more. I am still planning on going to France next year, I just don’t know where to go! Hope to keep in touch..and I hope Kerri can convince me to vote for him…I don’t know where he stands…I am learning french and I start classes in January…can’t wait to be fluent!!

crc95: Wow. You have ’em all stirred up now.

ikorrellim: Kerry/Edwards has my donation and I will be driving people to the Polls. It will be facinating to see how the drama will play out. You are so right – the country cannot afford 4 more years of the neo-cons. I wonder what the reaction here will be to what those animals in Chechnya did last week to those kids. The neo-cons seem to be milking that already.

Donerail

by the way…what you said in French…someone who would have wasted me the voyage? and your father’s saying…." one shouldn’t throw the baby with the bath water"? if I am correct, can you explain what it means?

Merci

Donerail … ‘stir’em up’ … yes, that’s what we Frenchmen do … thought you already knew that !

CRC

CRC95: Well, that’s the best offer I’ve had all day…

To the Frenchmen/women on this forum: I know that Europe and other countries would like to see Bush out…but, what are they really saying on the streets? I’d be interested to know just how they feel about Kerry…notwithstanding that he is of French origin.

Donerail: Yes, they are using this terrorist act in Russia to scare as many people to the polls as possible, and Cheney yesterday was disgusting in what he said…but, people who do not pay much attention to what is going on, i.e., issues…will buy what he said and embellish it even more to the more ignorant on issues than they are…It is a shame that the Republicans are ahead through their smears and outright lies. I am hoping that Kerry walks all over Bush in the Debates. I am anxious to see if Texans for Truth has an impact.

When Cheney said that if Kerry is elected it will be other terrorist attack on USA and none if Bush stay is so stupid, I can’t believe that he could said that. I’m amaze.

Regarding the people here, if Droopy was running against Bush, French people will support it… (french and 90% of the world…!)

Never in the History of United State of America a president had been worlwidely consider as an idiotic, it just never happend. So weird, how can USA people still support a president who is the most hated president worldwide of all time, makes u wonder.

A lot of thos people just dont trust kerry.I know thats hard to belive but its ture.You see those people that are still voteing for bush are scared of him.This is why i say this.1.kerry dose not pick a side and stay with it.howerd dean picked where he stood and stood by it.Kerry is (even if people say this way too much)a flip floper.thats realy bad and a lot of people see it that way.2.most not all millatry dont trust him.there scared that he will turn his back on them.the reason i say this is cuz my dad in in the army,and when i go to his work with him most of the guys and girls there are all ways talking on how thay think that once kerry is in office he will cut the army and other stuff down like clinton did.3.there all so scared he will not finsh what the "chimp"as you call him started.even if the war is stupid in you eyes we must finsh what we started.as for me.I hate them both.I think where doomed ethere way.I just hope who ever wins dos some thing good.Or well end up have a war here on home grounds.any ways this is just what i think.you might not see it this way.

ManuNice, You said, "So weird, how can USA people still support a president who is the most hated president worldwide of all time, makes u wonder."

Keep in mind that ALL Americans do not support Bush. The last election was so close it had to be settled by the Supreme Court. That means nearly half of Americans didn’t want Bush to be elected. Those of us who did not want him, still do not want him. We dislike him more than we did when we voted against him in the first place.

You also have to remember that probably half of Americans (or more) have never left their country and many of those who have left the USA have visited either Canada or Mexico, not Europe. They still think of Europe as the place we saved in WWI and WWII. They still think of Europe as almost a third world country. They haven’t seen it; they don’t know any Europeans; they have no idea of the European economy or various governments. They are constantly bombarded with the idea that the USA is the greatest country in the world and we should "help" everyone else to be like us. It doesn’t occur to them to even care what the rest of the world thinks about Bush . . . or anything else for that matter. Many people here think it is good that Bush is hated by "foreigners" because that must mean he’s doing something right. It is a very odd attitude, but it is in a very insular and provincial society.

It’s easy to cross borders in Europe especially now that the EU is a fact. Your countries are smaller than our states. We travel across state borders all the time, just like you go to Italy or Spain or Germany. But you are visiting a different culture. When someone goes from Indiana to Ohio or Illinois or Kentucky they are not visiting another culture. It is another place just like the one they left. The stores are the same, the cars are the same, the language is the same, the attitudes are the same. It is very easy to be provincial when you live like that. Also, our country is so large that you can drive for a week or more and never leave the country. Again, in that situation, it is very easy to be provincial. Going to Europe is too expensive for many Americans and many are afraid to go someplace where they can not speak the language. There are many reasons for our provincialism and I think it may help you to understand us a bit more if you know what some of these reasons are. Should we change some of it. Sure, but we haven’t done it yet. Many schools don’t teach any foreign languages and those that do only teach Spanish. Just that one thing would help tremendously.

The only thing that will get Bush out of office is his ludicrous performance here at home. When people can’t get jobs, they vote for someone else. When people can’t get health care, they vote for someone else. When businesses fail, they vote for someone else. When a lot of young people are killed in a foreign country, they vote for someone else. In other words, Bush is his own worst enemy. If he can’t get the economy on a better standing, or at least appear to, he can’t win the election. People care about what they can actually see and hear. If Kerry can push the idea that the national surplus has become the national debt, that we’ve lost millions of decent jobs and that our young people are dying on foreign soil, then Kerry can win the election. So far, he hasn’t done a very good job of getting that message across. He is now using Clinton’s advisors and they are trying to change his message. Unfortunately, this will appear as some more flip-flopping on Kerry’s part, but I don’t see any other way he can win this. At least he’s flip-flopping in the right direction.

I think a great many of us wish Edwards was the Presidential candidate and Kerry the vice president. Edwards seems to be able to express his ideas more firmly. Be that as it will, it will be a wild campaign and I don’t think we’ll know who is going to win until it’s all over despite what the pollsters try to tell us.

Keep telling yourself, half of all Americans really do not like Bush. Pray that it becomes 51%.

Myfarside: I’m just worrying about the association you may make between your ex-french-boyfriend and France. Last time, you have liked France in a big part because of him, because of the experiences he made you live there: I wouldn’t want you to hate France for the same reasons, because of him or another idiot. It’s a matter of passion. This is why I told you my own experience with Rio and some an idiot who made me hate my favorite foreign town: it was passion between Rio and me, and when I went away from Rio, I remember that I was swearing to never come there again. As you seem to be a passionate girl also, I just wanted to remember you that passion becomes easily hate.
About the story of the baby and the bath water, it was just another way to say the same thing: let the idiot who broke your heart ( the bath water ), he is not the more important, and continue enjoying France ( the baby ), that the most important. Please salB, would you explain to her what I meaned?
About the marriage proposition, just let me ask my wife if she agrees:-o
About your coming in Toulouse, I’m afraid it would be impossible for me to welcome you there because I’m living in French Guiana ( South America : Hey! I didn’t realize but…I’m an american now!!! ) since 18 years…Since I have completed my economy master, I go there only for holidays, and I miss Toulouse a lot ( et Garonne! joke for french people )

ikorrellim: About Bush, if I was a north american… I would also have problems to know who I would vote for… As salB said, it’s hard for us to imagine a so big country and its real problems.
But there is another consideration: does anybody here ( excluding the frenchmen of course ) worry about who will be elected in 2007 in France? Will it change anything for you american? No.
But for us, this bloody gulf war has divided Europe and slowered the construction of Europe, the war has provocated the terrorist attack in madrid and thousands of death over the world, mainly innocent iraky people, and we know, we knew, that Saddam had no links with Al Qaida or 9/11.
And now, we’ve an uncontrolled situation in Irak, we have a civil war there, and Irak will finish as an islamic republic ( where republic will only be a name, of course )…The exact contrary of we could want for Irak.
Bush knew that Irak and saddam had no link with Al Qaida, no massive destructing weapons, and he lied to his people, with his famous smile who seem to say "I’m fuc…. you, and you and I like it".
He is a lier, as a lot of governant indeed ( including our president of course, I tell it before anybody else does it for me ), but the difference is he is a dangerous lier for the entire world, including America.

WAKE UP, AMERICAN PEOPLE! Your vote can change our lifes: the truth is not out there.

ManuNice: Yes, I would vote Droopy better than Bush.

I spent two hours of my life to write it all: I hope it will help to open ones americans eyes, for them to see Bush as he really is.
In God I trust also…
Montjoly

Montjoly/Myfarside: Thank you for the French insight. We are really a good country and occasionally we collective screw up when it comes to elections. With the exception of Reagan and Nixon, we usually don’t make the same mistake twice. If is wasn’t for the fact that so many people are being killed, the last four would have been entertaining.

crc95: Get control of your harem.

Donerail

no need to worry my friend…I could never hate France or the idiot that broke my heart. I will visit France again and hopefully ,no, no hopefully…I will move to France someday soon! Right now I have a lot goals I have set before me..University, learning French, buying my first home, and who knows..maybe I can love again, in a distant future! ( God that scares me! ). I know that this is off the subject but…do you think ( the question is for everybody ) that we can fall inlove many times?..well I better go exercise, need to distress.
About the marriage proposal…Darn!! all the good one are taken!

A Bientot

myfarside: yes I travel to France alone. I’ve always travelled to Western Europe alone and I never encountered any problems. Well, there are those pesky Italian men in Roma that flirt with me all the time…even a Vatican employee. But hey, they’re Italian, so that’s ok 🙂

farside, I can understand why other Americans would be jealous or angry with you because you have opportunities for living abroad that they might not have. If possible, keep your plans quiet at work, so that co-workers don’t back-stab you out of jealousy or anger. I mean it, I speak from experience on this topic.

SalB has said it best. I’ve been all over Europe and I couldn’t of said it any better.

ikorrelim: I have a newly found respect for you!! I wouldn’t have expected you to vote Kerry, but keep doing what you’re doing.

ManuNice, you said, "When Cheney said that if Kerry is elected it will be other terrorist attack on USA and none if Bush stay " Is this true?? Cheney really said this?????? How AWFUL!!!!!!!!

Haha..Yes Falling in Love could be Several times for me. However, the lady I met in the Vatican in College was very hard to forget. I moved to Chicago, visited to there, too. The interesting, intelligent ones are the hardest to forget. Four years ago, I think the "Vatican lady" was all in place…and as I walked into her family home, then looked at the gray skies, I remembered too my 14 years in Chicago shoveling snow, pushing stuck cars, etc. I recall all the nice traditions of seeing relatives each Sunday afternoon and all…so I came back to Calif to regroup. I liked going to warm, beautiful France and in 2 weeks I head to another venue called Philippines and Hong Kong. (Like what is this comment doing in Kerry versus Bosch? Well…what the heck)

PS: Yes, I too thought SalB was a Republican. Dirksen type , not
the Frist type. I just pictured him driving a Cadillac or one
of those Saturns.

LVB: Yes he said that two dayz ago… The news on TV show the video of Cheney’s speech several times and laugh out loud about it… Me I was scared to hear a so stupid argument because if he use it it means some of americans will believe it…

Salb: a great post u made here, U explain all those things really well, and my post was no offense to american people off course, but when I check the ratings and they tell me that if the election was today Bush will win, i’m scared… And even if half of USA is against bush it means that other half is for it and since half of america is 200 million peoples I found this is alot!!!

ikorrellim: The Bushies are really amazingly arrogant. The Boston Globe reported today that they have records that prove Bushie didn’t go to the National Guard meetings that he was supposed to have. And still he let the Swift Boat boys go forth and lie and savage Kerry’s Vietnam service. The utmost in either evildoing or arrogance. Donerail

danairozo, I’m a registered Republican who has never voted Republican. In California we can only vote in the Primary Election of our registered party. The Primary Elections are where you choose the candidate who will run in the National Elections. If you want to have any input in what a party is doing, you register in that party so you can vote for a candidate. Needless to say, I lose a lot.

So, in national elections I usually vote Democrat although I have voted Independent and once voted Green. We own only one car and it’s a Toyota Camry. I don’t like either Dirksen or Frist and I’m for universal health care, generous welfare benefits and open (but regulated) immigration. I also think Americans need to pay more taxes so they can have the services they need. I also think we need higher gasoline prices so people would start to use public transportation, carpool and stop buying huge SUVs. That’s not too typical of most Republicans. The entire party is not full of people like Bush. I probably wouldn’t make a very good Democrat either.

Montjoly asked me to explain "Don’t throw out the baby with the bath water." It is an American colloquialism. She explained it well. Literally, it means don’t throw out what is truly important (the baby) when you throw out what needs to be thrown out (the bathwater). Figuratively, it means to be careful of your priorities and when you decide to get rid of something, be very sure you don’t get rid of something important. Decide what is important and what can go.

ManuNice, I don’t have exact figures but I think half of America is only about 125 million people. You’re right though. It is a lot. I sure hope we don’t blow this election.

Yes, SalB, that’s a good response. I just thought it was funny how some here were guessing your affiliation. I was a Rep. Precinct Capt. for several years in Suburban Chicago. I really liked the people I dined with, partied with, worked with. I got into the "Don Totten" wing because as a State social worker I got Real results when I went to GOP reps. in Illinois. I just got nice letters from the Demos and my clients still were hanging. Moving to Calif. in ’92, I
found the GOP to be much trickier and much meaner in its ways. I did vote for McCain and Forbes, but I got so tired of that lady calling me asking for large donations, that I switched parties registration.

SalB: you wrote, falling about me: "…she explained it well… "? What did make you think I was a girl? Because I spoke with you about my baby and my family: it’s not very macho, huh???
Sorry, I’m a happy married man ( yes it exists ), and if I have an obsession with my baby, my family, or if I show myself more sensitive about life or death, about war and innocent victims like Iraqui children, it’s only because I lost my own little girl when she was five month old:-((((((((((((((((((
Now I’m daddy again, and my son became the center of my world.
And not Bush, don’t worry.
But there’s some subjects like god and death, suicide, or any waste of life ( with so ridiculous problems regarding to the short life we have ), witch make me react very hardly.
Donerail: I cannot imagine the four past years without the thounsands of victims, as so as I’m really very very far to think about Bush Presidency as an entertaining period…Oh, I was going to forget: I’m afraid crc95 won’t accept a man in his harem ( he would be wrong, indeed, I cook very well…).
Myfarside: si te gustas de hablar en español, porque no, lo podemos sin problema, pero ya que tenemos el ingles y el frances se mezclando aqui, va a quedarse mucho dificil de entenderse, sobre todo que a vezes, empiezo a equivocarme con el portugues que hablo tambien ( ninguem fala portugues por aqui? ). Sera como quieras, amiga…
See you soon, à bientôt, hasta luego, até breve, etc…
Montjoly.

Montjoly: I’m sorry to hear about the loss of your little girl. But at least you have a son now. And you never know who might arrive in the future…

Yes, most Frenchmen know how to cook well. I’ve only met one Frenchman who cannot cook, and he wasn’t long in my life … so you can come into MY harem, as long as you agree to cook dinner every night

Sorry, Montjoly. You signed yourself Dominique once and I had a friend long ago named Dominique who was a nun. There aren’t too many guys who are nuns. I guess I shouldn’t make assumptions. One of our daughters has a name that could be either male or female and some of the names the kids have in school today could be anything from the neighbor’s cat to a guy or a girl.

I apologize and stand corrected.

I know happily married men exist. My husband and son are two of them. Their lives have always revolved around their families. I might add, our son is one of the best cooks that I know!

SalB: You are amazing. Now you are speaking for your husband and son. And you want to pay more taxes. You will have to tone down those Leftie philosophies a tad. You are starting to make Karl Marx look like a neo-con and this is the internet. People read this stuff.

Montjoly: I knew you were male as Dominique is a recognized French male name. I just assumed that crc95 might be a "switch hitter" as we say in the USA. crc95 is going to be pissed at me now.

Donerail

You don’t seem to mind speaking for your wife.

It always amazes me that Americans want the best of everything but they don’t want to pay for it. Taxes pay bills. If you want services, you pay taxes. That should be pretty simple to understand.

Donerail : you’re free to make your own assumptions. But I’m sorry, you and I just can’t work out.

SalB : that nun friend of yours … are you sure it wasn’t rather in a song ????

CRC

Donerail: ( see, I began with you ) You’ve a too much complicated english for me, you’ll make me buy a dictionnary soon: what’s a "switch hitter"? I know my english is not good but why do I have more difficulties to understand your messages than the other’s ones???
I should travel to USA to learn american… And Miami is not so far from where I live, so why not…

crc95: are you going to sing that song also? If you knew how many people have song it to me in my life… ( pourquoi je t’écris en anglais au fait?????? )

La vieille branche: I’m yet cooking everynight for my wife, what would I earn changing of harem??? And I don’t feel like to live in USA for the moment, mainly as a Frenchman, but maybe am I wrong?

SalB: ( Je garde toujours le meilleur pour la fin ) There’s no problem and nothing to apologize about:-)
You wrote your son is a great cooker? I don’t know nothing about american’s cooking culture: what are the specialities of your country, except the turkey for thanksgiving of course?
I’m sure you have anything else than cheeseburger, haven’t you? You can say the truth, I promess I won’t laugh ( I’ve been in England you know…).

Hola..no, no falo Portugues, however, I do have a favor to ask of you…my ex boyfriend’s uncle sent me an e-mail, all in french of course! They like me very much and had high hopes for us, they don’t know about the break up yet. I don’t understand all of what he says and I was wondering if you could translate it for me. I would like to send it to you because I don’t want to post it here for everybody to read ( no offense ). I also want to write him back and tell him what happened but I want to do it all in french, his english is not that great. Pretty soon I will be fluent, I know that. They have invited me to come visit them to their town and I would love to see them again, they were so sweet to me and my kids! this question is for everybody…since we broke up and he is my ex’s uncle, would it be appropiate for me to visit them, or should I stay put and not visit them next time I am in France…I promised them I would visit them but I don’t know how they will feel once they know we are not together. If you can help…I will give you my e-mail address.

Merci!

Myfarside: I can translate it for you, no problem…

Montjoly: "switch hitter" is a baseball term here in the USA. I thought that crc95 might know something about it but I was wrong.

SalB: I don’t think American’s want the best of everything and then don’t want to pay for it. What an indictment of your fellow citizens! We want services and we expect to pay for those services. What ever gave you the idea that Amercans don’t want to pay for necessary services? Irresponsible comments like that reflect poorly on the people that make them. Maybe you folks do need Arnold.

Donerail

Thank you very much, you are much too kind!! My address is Caribe1969@yahoo.com
If you can e-mail me first and just tell me it’s you ( that way I won’t delete it thinking it’s spam ). Crc, donerail, you all are welcome to e-mail me also, I need a lot of encouragement, I have good days and bad days. Montjoly..I totally get the baby and the bath water say, thank you so much! I’ll wait for your mail anxiously!

Muchas gracias amigo.

Montjoly : my email is crc95@wanadoo.fr and ‘switch hitter’ means gay in English slang. I thought that Donerail might know something about it but I was wrong. Weird since he likes Harley leather and big long bats so much.

CRC

crc95/myfarside: I’m not in my office: I’ll give my own adress to both of you on monday. I’m going to fish right now, yahoo…

Have everybody a good weekend ( here it’s 31°c with no cloud:-))))

Montjoly

crc95, The singing nun and "Dominique" was at least 15 years before I met Sister Dominique . . . but she could sing quite well. I met her at a music camp. She was an Episcopal nun, not Catholic.

Montjoly, When our son was a teenager, he worked in the kitchen of a very nice gourmet restaurant in a university town. He is very good with most French dishes popular with the eastern university set and he is also very good with Mexican food because we all like it very much. He also likes to experiment with food and enjoys using fresh vegetables.

As far as typical American dishes, I think it depends on what part of the country you are visiting . . . or what section of a city you are visiting. I agree that a roasted turkey is traditional at Thanksgiving. At Christmas, you can have roasted turkey again or you can have roast prime rib of beef. We lived in a town once in NY where everyone had fried calimari for Christmas! They all had Italian ancestors.

On New Years Day (Jan. 1) many people here try to have pork. My family had baked ham. My husband’s family had roast pork with sauerkraut. I have a lot of friends in Miami who eat pumpkin soup every Jan. 1. That is their tradition. In our family we have several different kinds of fondue for New Year’s Eve. It’s just what we do to celebrate.

My family eats a lot of French and Italian food because we like it. I fix a few German things because my ancestors were German so these are family recipes. We eat Mexican food because we live in southern California and it is easy to buy the ingredients. We also like some of the Greek dressings. My husband and I eat vegetarian and fish but not much meat so that affects what I cook. We have a garden so we eat a lot of whatever is ripe at the moment.

I’m not sure there is something "traditional" that would apply all over this country. There are too many ethnic groups here . . . and too much good food.

donerail, You wrote, " We want services and we expect to pay for those services. What ever gave you the idea that Amercans don’t want to pay for necessary services?"

Perhaps the fact that Mr. Bush became our President by promising huge tax cuts may have influenced my decision. That is the easiest way to win an election in this country . . . promise a tax cut. Two and two . . .

Don’t be so self-righteous. You know very well Americans complain constantly about taxes. It’s in the papers, on television, in magazines, books, radio talk shows . . . all over. It is no secret. I’m not saying anything that any well read person doesn’t know.

SalB: I am trying to understand your pontifications. Tell me something, since I am one who complains about taxes. Just how much – in terms of a percentage – do you think is a fair amount that Government should take from each dollar that you and I earn? You have made the statement that we don’t pay enough in taxes. Maybe what I am paying is too low. You are very well read, as you inferred, just what is that percentage? I think you don’t have the nerve to disclose it.

Donerail

About 45 days to the election. Last poll : Bush 52 %, Kerry 47 %.

That stupid boob Kerry is ruining the whole thing. Now is the time you really wish Dean would have made it. UnFbelievable.

CRC

crc95: The polls that I have been seeing are actually worse than that. Liveshot Kerry does have a track record of finishing strong. The debates will be important. Donerail

crc95: Interestingly, we get some but not enough coverage as to how most of the world just can’t stand The Chimp. I think its like 90+% unfavorable in just about every country. Something like 97% in Egypt. If only my countrymen could "tune in" to some of that input. Most first reactions would be "screw them" but eventually they would start thinking about it. There is no sane reason why he should be elected to a second term. The first time was excusable because people didn’t know who Bush was. They knew Al Gore and Gore was making a lying fool of himself. Kerry may only last four years as well. Donerail

Well, I think of the general culture. And, I think how Years ago People hated the Yellow School Buses that traversed the areas.
And, I recall the kids and their parents who said, "It’s Not the Bus, it’s US." Chimps, Austrians with $2-signatures becoming governor, whatever. We are stuck with this. Even the US Mail man yesterday was yelling about Liberals this, liberals that making a mess of San Francisco."(this Postman is a Union Leader who takes advantage of every Backache-leave rule in the book). Your optimism, Donerail, is nice to read here. But, I think the thought processes about Life and value of health in France, or Spain even Germany (minus its problems with "east Germany&quot are plain different from the USA. And, Jimmy Carter’s remarks about taking volunteers to many places and getting yelled at or booed, these days, speaks for itself.

danairozo: I think I know what you are saying. Donerail

CRC 95:

Hopefully, the real "stupid boob" will lose the election…and that is Bush for certain. It simply amazes me how many people still believe in Bush, but it is not Bush they believe in, they are voting on their fear, a fear that Bush/Cheney keep enforcing by their "fear tactics"…That they are keeping us more safe…When are people going to wake up, read the news and see that we have opened a Pandora’s Box in Iraq. Someone made a very interesting statement on TV last night. They said we should have a Secretary of History….If Bush had had such a person, he could have told him before going to war with Iraq just what happened to the British when they tried to "democratize" the country. They finally gave up after about 15 years, billions of dollars, and many lives lost…

I am always writing the editors of my papers, calling my congressman, and sending "helpful hints from ikorrellim" to JohnKerry.com and calling their headquarters in NC, Mass and DC. We all MUST become political activist in this campaign…and HELP get the message out and take some people to the polls, or change some minds…it is crucial…This country and the world cannot stand another four years of George Bush.

My latest contribution to the JohnKerry.com contact us suggestion:

Have someone make a SPIN on this statement:

"How can the administration that oversaw the biggest failure of U.S. Intelligence in the history of this country run the candidate on the slogan that he will keep us safer?"

There is a young lady in New Mexico, I believe, that is putting in 20 hours a week to the Kerry Campaign, even though she is a full time student and mother, as a footsoldier and pollster…She realized that when her county lost to Bush by 357 votes last time, that she could certainly get out there and sign up 357 new voters for Kerry…

THIS IS CRUCIAL TO ALL OF US…SO, anyone out there who is not putting the peddle to the medal will not have a leg to stand on if Kerry loses…

Donerail / SalB / LVB : you all heard the woman. Now get your lazy butts out and off the couch and go to work !

Donerail : I’m not sure either that showing Americans how much the rest of the world hates the Chimp would be a good thing in this election. That said, and I don’t want to sound too melodramatic when I say that, but I believe seldom in world history has a US election had so much impact on the world’s future — and peace.

CRC

If Bush is elected this becomes his last term. As he cannot be elected to a 3rd term, imagine what he will do during the next 4 years…he will do whatever the hell he wants and he cannot be held accountable for it because he won’t have to face the voters again.

Just think of the US Supreme Court. Many of those guys are approaching retirement age, if they’re not already. Imagine a Supreme Court filled with young, Bush appointees, with the philosophy of Antonin Scalia.

This is only one example, but it is of extreme importance. A court filled with young Bushies would effect the US laws for the next 20 years, at least. Do we really want this? Scary thought.

Now that is a part of the equation that I never thought of…Bushies appointees…it is very scary…

CRC 95:

I was directing my "get off your butt and do something remark to you"…You critized Kerry for being behind in the polls…so I thought you might need to turn off your computer…and put on your walking shoes…

New Poll today in Wall Street Journal: Kerry 48, Bush 47, Nader 2…

CRC Get off your butt and get busy…do you live in a blue/red state or a swing?

LVB : he cannot be elected for a third term ? Yeah well, so supposably couldn’t Uribe, Menem and Fujimori.

Iko : I wish I could help, I really do, and I’d do it. But, right now, I’m a French gov’t employee in Cergy-Pontoise, Val d’Oise, France, and unfortunately that’s like 3 good reasons to stay put on my butt

CRC

I don’t know if problems of world peace and prosperity will be solved by the inner actions in the USA. I personally have put a lot of stock in the President of France, the German Chancellor and others. But, the heavy money of Bushie-related companies and enterprises weighs heavily. Yes, the Philippines took out troops to save Angelo, but I wonder how a country suffers when Bush (often OUR) money is yanked. I hope I am wrong, but I hear that even Chirac and Schroeder are now losing favor as new elections grow near. All that money seems to buy happiness and votes in Australia and other places. I wonder if there is a lack of Bush-USA money in Spain now. Also, I wonder how long Tony Blair can hang on….and what is he hanging on to?

Folks, I’m in Ohio visiting my mother and everyone I’ve talked to here thinks Bush is wonderful and doing a great job. They also really dislike Kerry. I think Mr. Kerry better spend even more time here than he is doing. You can’t even talk to these people. They know they are right and they think anyone who thinks differently is crazy. It’s all American Pie here . . . scary. I might add the only ones I’ve talked to are older quite well off people, not younger folks or anyone whose lost a son or daughter or who has lost health benefits of jobs. Perhaps others feel differently. I certainly hope so or we’re all lost.

I think almost as offensive to me is that they think Schwarzenegger is doing wonderful things in California. What do they know?!?!?

I really hope you’re having a nice trip, SalB. Ohions used to love Congressman Traficante, too, until he couldn’t get them any more perks from his jail cell. As far as the $2-per signature governor here in Calif.? I don’t hear much about him. I heard his staff is mad cause he doesn’t get the air and newpaper time he thought he would. I doubt that the gov. and staff intercede for people like a typical elected official. His object is more to Control the people Austro-Germanic style (circa 1938). No, there are no Camps here,
Yet!

LVB: If Bushie wins, Mrs Donerail and me are going to move in with crc95 in Lyon.

SalB: The older folks in the Rustbelt are actually quite conservative. I think the younger folks see the light. If there was only some way to get them to the polls.

Ikorrellim: How unfortunate that Dan Rather and CBS and me got scammed on the documents thing. It will play out favorably. You can say you saw it here first.

Donerail

Donerail : I dare you !

CRC

Donerail:

I think it has played out well already…It is keeping this question of Bush’s service on TV and in the papers…It puts doubt in people’s minds about his character…

CRC95 While you are in Ohio…go do something for Kerry…Visit his polling place…pass out a few Kerry stickers…Or the least you can do is have these older conservatives listen to your side of the story (the Kerry side)…even though they are older, financially secure, "bible’belt" people…they still don’t like to hear that anyone is going to try and mess with their social security and I know they do not like this new Medicare Prescription Drug plan…Pocketbook issues…Most people vote on pocketbook issues when all is said and done…

I think if Kerry keeps on as he has been in the last week or so, he will definitely win or give George Bush a good run for his money…If only some people could overcome their "fear factor"…It is a shame when a party will actually scare people into voting for them…That is getting low…

iko : that’s SalB, she’s the one in OH right now, I’m the French guy. But, I’m pretty sure she’s doing what you asked, don’t worry.

CRC

Hi everyone,

I am a french guy writing from France.
The first word that come into my mind when i think about american political context is "manipulation".
We in france are certainly manipulated as well but not so hardly i think. Watching american sat TV is really symptomatic (does this word exist in english ?). I do really think that there is a lack of independance of the press and media in the US.
Is it a good impression ? What are your opinions ?

Another topic : you probably heard that 2 french journalists were captured by iraqui terrorists a month ago. At the beginning, it seemed that the diplomatic way could succeed but the situation is now getting worst again because of growing terrorist attacks in iraq and the response of the US coalition (bombing civil areas where the terrorists hide). Some in France say that this would not be a good thing for Mr Bush re-election if France succeed in the diplomatic way.
Is this also manipulation ? Is it part of the truth ? Your comments ?

My mother listens to conservative radio every day, all day while I’m at work. This radio station makes Rush Limbaugh seem liberal in its views. Since she started listening to this garbage, she has changed her opinions. Bush is now a saint who can do no wrong. So he lies, wages war, etc.. In her mind he is a god. She used to think that waging war to steal another country’s resources was wrong. Now, with Iraq and their oil, this radio station convinced her it’s ok to wage war for oil because the USA needs oil, and as we’re the strongest nation in the world, we can just go in and TAKE what we want and the local population be damned. WE NEED, THEREFORE WE TAKE.

Unfortunately she is not the only one who is listening to this crap. How many other gullible minds are listening to this and will vote Bush because of it? You can go out and "get out the vote" all you want, but it’s things such as this radio station that are convincing people to think otherwise. Any suggestions on how to turn OFF this radio station?

Mais Oui, LVB..I was kind of hitting on this fact a few days ago. Your word "Gullible" is really the key. Stealing resources so as to have SUV fuel or big Pickup truck fuel seems the
norm for USA sentiment since Occidental and Armand Hammar went into Libya years ago. I know there have always been figures as to how much energy USA consumes compared to Europe, etc. But, back to "gullible"…I hear so much right wing stuff about how Moslems all need to be destroyed and can’t be trusted etc. and I really am not sure of that. Many of the people in Baghdad or Pakistan or Bali don’t seem to want bombs attached to their bodies etc. They seem a lot like us.

danizairoo: well, the problem is that most of the USA believes all that right wing propaganda. In general, Americans are a gullible group of people.
I personally know people who won’t vote Kerry because his wife is foreign-born woman who "stole" the Heinz money, because she has her own opinions and beliefs. They seem to think that a woman’s place is to support her man and sacrifice her dreams, ambitions, and her money, for him. The fact that this is coming from other WOMEN is a scary thought. Either they’re: 1)secretly jealous of Teresa Heinz Kerry or 2)really believe that women have a subservient place in American society. What does this do for the future of women in the USA? What role model do young girls have today?

When you start figuring in how all the outside forces affect presidential elections, it can become huge.

Who here would vote for a woman president?

LVB: Please. We haven’t had a woman president. We haven’t had a black or Latino president. We have had one Catholic president. We are still a relatively young nation – still learning about government, democracy, freedoms, etc. (That said, I wonder how Maggie Thatcher, Indira Ghandi, Golda Meir, and Ms Bhutto managed to get elected. I would have voted for Barbara Jordan in a heartbeat.) I agree we live in an age of the Sound Bite and manipulation – which is why education is so important. I actually listen to the Right Wingers on the radio and TV. You have to learn everything you can about your opponent. Bushie’s soft underbelly is the Religious Right. The RR is a relatively small but fanatical segment of our population and they know how to cultivate the uneducated. I don’t think our media is "controlled" by anything other than getting ratings. And you have to admit, the Right Wingers – as loathe as they are – are an entertaining lot. Donerail

donerail: most of America is religious in some way or another. Once you get off the East coast, religious values are everywhere. Down south, the Midwest, the Southwest, there seems to be a church on every street corner, usually Baptist of Methodist. In my previous job, that town had a Baptist/Methodist chuch on every block, and it was in NJ. These people BELIEVE what Bush says and they will vote for him because he is one of them. The fact that we’ve only had ONE non-WASP president says quite a bit about America and its people/beliefs.

ikorrellim, You wrote "even though they are older, financially secure, "bible belt" people…they still don’t like to hear that anyone is going to try and mess with their social security and I know they do not like this new Medicare Prescription Drug plan . . . Pocketbook issues… Most people vote on pocketbook issues when all is said and done."

In answer, you don’t discuss Bush vs. Kerry with these people. They know that Bush is right and Kerry is wrong. Don’t bother them with the facts please! They are not on social security and don’t personally know anyone who is. They have their pensions and their investments and their inheritances. They don’t care about the new Medicare Prescription drug benefit. They have either private or company paid health care with drug benefits. What you need to understand is they they do NOT have "pocketbook" issues. Their pockets are full and Bush is president so he must be responsible.

For some reason they have managed to live their lives without feeling any sense of responsibility for their fellow man. They think if people would only be more like them, people would all be rich. If you’re poor, it’s your own fault. It never occurs to them that everyone doesn’t receive an inheritance or a terrific company pension plan. They are different; they are insulated from reality; they are incredibly close-minded and selfish.

To whomever told me to check the younger voters, I can assure you that the children of these people feel exactly the same way and I can also assure you that these young people will vote . . . and vote for Bush. They don’t want to upset the apple cart. It worked for their parents, it will work for them.

Kerry has got to put forth a plan that makes sense to them and also give them some sense of responsibility toward their fellow man. I’m not sure he can do it. If he plans to try, he better get started.

These are not a majority of the people, but many more of them will vote than people who feel the opposite. These are also people who control much of the media.

One more thing, these people are not the religious right. They do go to church but are high church, not fundamentalists. Half the kids don’t even attend church. There is a basic section of America that is doing very well and they do not want change. If you even suggest it, they get angry and then decide you are an idiot and ignore you. They don’t want to discuss; they want you to admit they are right.

The people who care had better be very sure they get out and vote because every vote will be extremely important.

yes, when was the last time a serious Woman candidate for US President came about. Well..I can’t think of a woman French Leader either since young Joan of Arc did well then antogonised the "Holy Mother Church."
Germany might have a woman Chancellor soon: Angela. But, the Germans are going through four or five pronged problems. When did Italy have a woman president? I think Women would do better in power in US of A… my favorite Presidential Vote would go to Jane Fonda

danairozo: I think I liked Jane Fonda best in the movie Barbarella. I can’t think of a viable woman candidate other than Hillary. Although I like her politics, the woman herself is too much of a hypocrite – even for a politician. It will be the next lifetime before the Republicans put forth a woman candiate. The Democrats would, except other than Hillary there is not much out there.

SalB: The number of people who "have made it" and are "rich" is insignificant in this country. Its maybe one or two percent. The paradox is there are a great many people who THINK they have made it that vote for Bush.

Donerail

Danairozo, we had a female prime minister in the late 80s, her name was Edith Cresson, but she was there less than two years I think.

Donerail : wasn’t Kennedy a catholic prez ?

CRC

Well, it sounds like the thoughts of these people are the same thoughts that I would think that the Bushies/Cheney’s think…So, now I understand…it’s all about ME…

crc95: Yes, JFK was the one Catholic president. Donerail

One or two percent rich will not take an election; however, it’s about the top 10 percent that are very comfortable. They have their pensions, their health care, their homes paid for and no debt. These people all vote. The other 90% who might not vote for Bush won’t vote. There are also many of the bottom 90% who think they are in the top 10% or think they will be in the top 10% and they don’t want to rock the apple cart. If everyone voted, they could carry the election, but everyone does not vote and that is the problem and the tragedy.

Arnold Schwarzenegger took California when only 19% of the registered voters bothered to go to the polls. That means no one knows how the other 81% of Californian registered voters feel, that’s four out of every five people who didn’t have an opinion or didn’t bother to let it be known. If the election officials only let one-fifth of the voters into the polls, people would have a fit, but voluntarily they do exactly that. To have a democracy, people must vote.

CRC95:

Well, after thoroughly reading and digesting all of the ever changing issues on the table for the 2004 Campaign…it appears to me that the "me society" and the "bible belt conservatives" should prevail in this election. I have narrowed it down to one issue: If this was "plainly spoken" to most Americans, they could understand…If you make $200,000 a year, vote for Bush, less vote for Kerry. Unfortunately, the Fear Factor is coming into play with Cheney (he really scares me and I think HE IS THE REAL president), now Dennis Hastert (he is kinda a scary looking person too)…

These neocon hawks are playing "army" as kids do in youth. NONE of them ever served in the military. They all "skipped" out one way or the other…to them this (Iraq) was (is) a game that they never played until now. Unfortunately for them, this is not a 1/2 video or movie where justice, truth and the American way always prevails…

I like Sen. Edward’s new definition for No-Carb Diet…No Cheny, No Ashcroft, No Rumsfeld, No Bushy…

Donerail:

Visit Michael Moore’s site…michaelmoore.com…I have come to respect and admire Michael Moore and his opinions…Actually, he is right…in the majority of things that he writes about…

ikorrellim: I could not agree with you more. I have been to the michaelmoore.com site. Its a hoot. In the same vane, check out howardstern.com. Howard is not exactly endeared to a lot of people – but he is commited to ousting Bushie. Donerail

I too, greatly admire the courage of Michael Moore. Early on, I liked Roger and Me where he told how a "broke" UAW section paid "Dr. Schuller $10,000 for a two hour pep talk". As, to Aanol being the $2 per signature and 19 percent governor of a state where I was born in,
I will not kiss his boots.
I am writing from the Holiday Inn Golden Mile Hong Kong and this is very beautiful here. Only one homeless person seen so far sleeping with his cardboard pallets. I do get tired of the Indian men asking for "Tailoring" every 70 feet. And, I did have one India woman ask if I would like "a Massage". I told her my feet were fine, thanks.

SalB,you’re right,you said most of the things I would say.Me and my wife will vote(of course)for Kerry,we also give money for his campaign.The village idiot has to go,he caused enough mess in the country and outside of it.it drives me crazy when I read his no nonsense in his retorics,because I don’t look at him,it makes me sick.
I am affraid of behind the scenes manipulations and cheating the votes again.Some believer in God ….you want to see hipocrisy in action,then that’s our self elected president.
We are almost there to become that country from George Orwell’s 1984.
Already the big brother is watching us.To much ignorance in USA…and to many cowards and brown noses everywhere.
It’s easy to start a fire,very hard to extinguish it and for that you must be a man,a brave warrior.I don’t see such example in our leader.
On top he is on the war path against nature and wants to destroy it.he himself said:" Why should I care? Iwon’t be around anyway."Such selfishness,a real megalomaniac.
I’ll end up here because it makes me sick to continue.

LOVE&PEACE,
Crazy Horse
**********************
"Yoy can’t wake a person who is pretending being asleep"
Old Cherokee proverb

crc95…Can I come visit you next time I am in Lyon?

myfarside : I am really impressed with your fascination towards Lyon, which I can somewhat understand. But, right now, I don’t live there any longer, which is sad I know. Some day maybe, but now right now. I now live in Cergy-Pontoise, a nice suburban town north-west of Paris, with an interesting record of urban violence, crime, illegal immigration, poverty, nasty cuisine, and rain. That said, everyone of you forum friends are welcome to stay with me — provided of course they’re not bostonians, teachers, chinese babies, or any freaks of that kind !

CRC

Hello Dunord, your English is very good and yes, symptomatic is an english word, welcome to the forum.

crc….that’s too bad!! what are you doing in that awful town!!
I will try to visit Lyon next summer, and of course Paris! Has anybody here been to the Montreux Jazz Festival in Switzerland?
I would love to go next year!! Have a good day everybody, let’s be better than the rest and not be so hateful!! I am afraid for the future no matter who wins!!!

myfarside: I almost went to the Jazz festival at Montreux. There was too much "gold and glitter" for my Harley soul. Lots of fur, gold, and leather on the ladies at night. Amazing affluence.

crc95: Sounds like you might be near Villacoublay (if I spelled that correctly). I used to do some business there – it wasn’t terribly attractive, either.

Donerail

Donerail…really? I thought the festival was very young and hip!
You must really like your Harley! how are the Red Sox doing? I wouldn’t mind visiting Boston again, I liked it very much. I ate at this Restaurant and it was very nice, but I don’t remember the name, I know it had two floors and I think the picture of a fish in it’s name..does it ring a bell? btw…..do you speak French?

crc…..yould you translate an e-mail for me? It’s for my exe’s Godparents, they wrote me last week and they don’t know about the break up yet, they were very excited about the posibility of a marriage, I really like them and I don’t want to seem rude by no writing back, but their english is not that great and neither is my french. is your e-mail address crc95@wanadoo.fr? I want to tell them what happened but in French, soon I will be fluent. Have a great day!
by the way, my address is Caribe1969@yahoo.com and my name is Sandra.

Myfarside : of course I’ll do it. You got my email right. What’s the town the grandparents live in ? Just curious.

Donerail : Villacoublay is not too far but not really my sector. Closer to Versailles. More on the west side of Paris. It’s also Paris main military airfield, where the President takes off. Were you there spying on our machines ?

CRC

Myfarside: Sorry not to have answered sooner to your message but I came back from Brazil only this morning and I sent the message with what you were wanting as soon as possible.
Montjoly

donerail: do you know the festival " jazz in Marciac"? it’s 2 or 3 weeks of jazz, every year in august. It’s a very big festival at 10 miles from where I was living, and you’ve all the "gers" to discover.
There is also a harley meeting in another village of this "departement": I’ll try to find the name of this village and when it happens.
Montjoly

crc…they live in a small village near Strasbourg, but I can’t remember the name! Thank you so much, Montjoly did it for me already! I can’t wait to start my french classes, I hope I can practice with you guys and I hope you will help me with homework.
I will e-mail you thou..have a great weekend!

crc95: We weren’t spying, we were only trying to help LaFrance build better aircraft. We were dealing, of course, with that fameous 50% French Government owned entity. It was unsettling to have to surrender my passport while visiting the installation. Your technology is very good and we try to help where we can.

myfarside: The Montreaux jazz festival is not as young and hip as you might expect. To me it was young, meaning folks in their 40’s and 50’s for the most part. The "beautiful people" as we say. It was fascinating to see how much affluence there is in Switzerland.

montjoly: I am not familiar with that festival. It sounds very interesting. Speaking of Harley gatherings, I am going on one tomorrow morning. A trek to the White Mountains of New Hampshire. The autumn foliage is breaking out in all its splendor. I have been a New Englander all my life and it is absolutely gorgeous what happens each autumn season with the turning of the leaves. And to see it on a Harley early in the morning – with the morning fog and mist at ground level – is something to behold and remember.

Donerail

Coming back to this forum subject…
I’ve just heard that the storms which are destroying the Caribe islands and a part of the south of USA are borning in the national waters of French Guiana ( where I live ). Maybe it’s why they were called "Frances" and "Jeanne"
If Mr BUSH knows it, he could consider it as a WMD…
Please, vote Kerry, it’s a matter of life or death for me now:-)
Montjoly

Donerail : thanks to such ‘help’ from you guys, Airbus now managed to outweigh Boeing in int’l sales. Just like Dassault did with private jets. We’re very grateful to you.

CRC

crc95: US companies (GE) make the engines for most of Airbus products and also for most of Dassault’s business jets (GE and Pratt Whitney.) As I said, we are only too willing to help LaFrance move forward with technology. Planes are very difficult to fly without engines. Donerail

crc95: I forgot to mention Allied Signal and Textron with regard to Dassault. Donerail

Donerail….how old are you and what do you do for a living? I am just curious, you don’t have to answer.

Here is a most useful website: http://www.stopgwbush.us/

We can add this to the collection of anti-Bush sites here.. I liked Michael Moore’s site..very interesting…

LVB: The Michael Moore site is great. Have you tried howardstern.com? Good stuff there as well. Kerry will win.

Myfarside: Donerail is 59 years young and he is deeply involved in the Military-Industrial Complex. Now, how old are you and what do you do for a living?

Donerail

Donerail : you’re probably aware that the first plane ever to take off the ground was a French one. It was Clément Ader’s Eole I in 1890. That was like 13 years before the Wright bros. So now, who stole whose technology ??

CRC

crc95: If we stole the technology, we made a lot better use of it than did your compatriots. Then again, you folks were probably working to perfect the hot air balloon and priortized accordingly. Donerail

Donerail…I am 35 years young and I am a Supervisor at a bank, your job sounds very interesting! I understand why you have travel so much now. well I better go make my most delicious French Apple Tart! I hope to be able to travel a lot also, it’s always been my dream. BTW….I worked as an interpreter for the US Army before and I loved it! Have you ever been to Central America?

By the way I found this great post-election website :

http://www.adopt-a-chimp.com

CRC

crc95: I actually clicked on that site and expected some good George W putdowns. You have too much time on your hands.

Myfarside: No, I have never been to Central America. I’ve been to Mexico a few times but no further south. I tend to opt for cooler climates anyway. Translating for the Army must have been a hoot. I remember the days when english in the Army was challenging enough.

Donerail

donerail: you’re right. crc really has too much time on his hands. Byt hey, he’s French, and you know their 35 hour workweek!!

LVB: I think that work week is destined to climb a bit.

crc95: Isn’t the work week creeping up?

Donerail

I have no idea. I’m management. I make others work. See, the reason I have so much time on my hands as you said is because I get to post from my workplace too. It becomes boring sometimes.

CRC

It was challenging at times, the american girls could get very jealous of me at times because of the attention I got, I guess they thought I was going to keep all the gi’s for my self. Other than that, I loved it and eventually they realized that I was there to do my job, not to steal the soldiers from them. It was a lot fun and hard work! I met a lot of nice people and not so nice people. Like you, I prefer the cooler weather, I went to Honduras 2 years ago, and I thought I was going to die!! it was so hot! I have been living in the north for 16 years now and I guess I got used to the cold weather.
I lived in Alaska for three years, Chicago 3 years, D.C. 3 years, and now I have been in Michigan for almost four, and it is cold here!! Anyway…have a good day everybody!

LVB: I do much more than 35 hours a week ( quite the double ). And my holydays (3 weeks a year ) are all spent in business travels. But I’m not complaining at all: I’m my own boss, If I want to stay half an hour reading the posts or surfing on the net, I’ve no chief behind my shoulders who could tell me to go back to work, and my job is not so bad…
Ok, customers are entering in my shop, and they are my real chief…I come back later.

crc95: I didn’t realize you were not "on the clock" as we say here. I am in management as well and do not punch a time clock. I think I was confusing France with Germany. A few years ago we were doing some business with Z-F and MBB. The engineers and managers we dealt with actually punched in their time each day/week. They didn’t get overtime pay but they received "comp time" to be added to their 5 week vacation time. Some of those guys (and gals) ended up getting more vacation time than SalB.

Donerail

LOL Montjoly! you are absolutely correct, the customers are our chiefs, without them you have no business and I have no job!
How is everybody doing tonight? I hope all is well with everybody!
well…I must go read my book. Good nite to all.

DOnerail : actually there is a clock, but I don’t use it.

CRC

crc95: My curiosity is raised. You don’t use the clock because you don’t have to? Or because you don’t want to? How does that work…

Donerail

Yeah I just don’t want to.

CRC

Well people, I’m off to bed now, in this time zone. Now if someone could watch the debate and tell me what they thought of it, so that I can see how it went when I get up, I’d really appreciate. Merci mille fois.

Vive Kerry ! Heil Bush !

CRC

crc95, It was interesting. The debate was good. Kerry did quite well. Bush showed visible anger on camera although I’m told all stations didn’t show both debaters all the time. Pity.

The ABC poll right afterwards showed Kerry ahead at 46%, Bush at 37% and 17% feeling it was a tie. Oddly, the same people were asked who they would vote for at the beginning of the debate and 50% supported Bush. After the debate, it was still 50% supporting Bush. In other words, at least 4% felt Kerry won but that didn’t change their minds. That was a quick poll immediately following the debates. It will be interesting to see what more thorough polls reveal. The CBS poll showed a Kerry win with 44% and I can’t remember the other figures. I’m sure it’s all posted on ABC.com and CBS.com and all the other .coms.

I did feel that Kerry comported himself very well. That’s a good thing.

Thank you very much SalB. I will be in the US for the next debates so I’ll try to watch them as well.

CRC

crc95….when are you coming? I would love to chat on the phone, if you want of course, if you do, I will e-mail you my number, ok?

I would like to ask you some questions about wine. take care.

crc95, We’ll miss the rest of the debates unless they’re on tv in Italy. You may have to write a report for me if you have time. Enjoy.

SalB : actually I was quite a bit surprise to find out today that the debate was broadcasted on a national TV channel. There was a one day delay, it was cut back a little, and overdubbed in French (which I HATE), but it was interesting. Besides, the whole of it was translated and printed in Le Monde today ! Seldom has a US election taken so much place in the French media. It’s bad enough to watch our own political debates, now if we start getting other countries’ debates !

CRC

crc95, Be thankful you don’ have to watch the advertisements in addition to the debates. We aren’t getting all the ads in California, but when I visited my mother in Ohio which is a swing state, there was nothing on television but political ads. It will get worse and worse as the election gets closer. At least you escape that . . . unless you happen to visit the US, of course!

Well, the Chief newspaper here in Asia says "Kerry clearly won the Debate". I think all these Filipinos are doing prayers everyday hoping that Kerry will Win this. Bush is a Loose Cannon.

crc95, You said you were coming the the US. Have you heard about the photographing and fingerprinting they are doing to people entering the US? I guess after Oct. 26 you need a visa if you don’t have an electronically readable passport. How do people there feel about all this? Just curious. Thanks.

SalB : yes, I am very well aware of all these new procedures. We’ve had biometric passports here as standards since march 2001. I don’t mind the controls, I have nothing to fear from them — except maybe for the FDA canine brigade but that’s another story I’m just concerned they seem to worsen up the waiting lines. Oh well.

CRC

SalB: Hi sal, how are you and your family?
I’ve just read your post about the photograph procedure entering in the USA: did you know that Brazil did the same toward american people, and only american people, entering in Brazil?
How do you feel about it? Just curious:-)
Montjoly
PS: the worst, in all that comedy, it’s that is absolutely useless: you can’t stop someone who is decided to die…

Montjoly, I agree. You can’t stop someone who decides to die. The thing that bothers me in all of this is all the security is aimed at the terrorists doing what they did before. It is all meaningless if the terrorists do something different. They need to infiltrate their organizations and find out what is being planned because I can’t imagine they’d be so stupid as to try the same thing over again. They’ll do something equally vile but different.

No, I didn’t know about Brazil fingerprinting US citizens. I guess if we’re going to do it to others, we need to expect others to do it to us. It’s kind of a reverse Golden Rule . . . or perverse Golden Rule.

What a state we’ve come to . . .

SalB:
thanks to?

Thanks to an uneducated electorate . . . among other things. The terrorists might take some blame and our administration can share the blame. If we’re sharing out blame, greedy governments everywhere can have a share. Then there are the people who don’t bother to vote. I guess that’s a sin of omission, but they are just as guilty.

You can’t blame it on a particular person, administration or society. It’s a combination of things that all gel in the wrong way. If you don’t do anything to stop if, you’ve contributed to the problem, albeit in a very passive way.

On a brighter note, voter registration is way up in the US. Now, if they’ll just think about who they vote for . . .

A funny link :
http://www.betavote.com/vote/

Saez: Thanks for that interesting site. How did you find it? Donerail

Donerail : I got it by visiting a website who’s (which is? please help me improving my english) talking about my Internet Service Provider.
Here is the original link : http://www.freeks-forums.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=18583

Saez: Thank you. Where are you from. I am from Boston, USA. Donerail

I’m from Paris Ile-De-France’s south suburb (92) not very far from… Cergy-Pontoise ! (but I don’t really like this city )

So you’re from Boston in Massachusetts (I’m working my geography) ?
I know many French that would like to go to Eastern US (Boston, NYC, Washington).
I’ve heard that the people here are very accessible and not to much "Francophobs".

I would like to travel over this part of the USA… if I have the money

Saez: People here in the NYC region are much more open, tolerant and accepting than the rest of the USA. There was no French boycott where I live, so that should tell you something. Here you’ll find many many people who speak French: pharmacists, sales clerks, doctors, etc.. because of the wide mix of nationalities here.

Saez: LVB is correct. Boston and NYC along with the West Coast are the centers of tolerance in the USA. The rest of the country is multi-phobic but basically harmless folks. They do a good job of growing our food. It sounds like you live close to crc95. He is from Lyon who has somehow gotten stranded in that area. Donerail

To get back the topic I would encourage EVERYBODY to pay a long visit to http://www.factcheck.org. FactCheck.org is a non-partisan website (even quoted by Dick Cheney himself) dedicated to holding politicians accountable for the information they present to the American people. Both Kerry and Bush are corrected on factual errors they have made, and the sources from which they have presented their information are brought to light and analyzed to the fullest. Each debate has been picked apart, one point at a time, to present the truest information possible. The site has no political affiliation, and in fact is quite adamant about maintaining neutrality, but the facts at hand, the real truth of the matter, show that Kerry is the man for the job.

ManuNice: In American politics, and probably in all politics, facts are sometimes a problem. I wish Kerry had done better last night. He had a good dozen opportunities to nail The Chimp – but he was too busy trying not to make a mistake. What a shame. Donerail

It’s amazing how things have gone. Kerry only had 41 percent a bit ago, and now, I see he is slightly ahead…depending on Electoral College. In last election, I felt that Gore should give it up even though he won slightly the popular vote. The Challenger should who is in a dead heat or close to the Incumbent-select or otherwise, should be given the reins. I believe that now, too.

LVB, Donerail : that’s what I like, the cultures mix

Yesterday on French TV, there were the 3 debates between Kerry and Bush (but not Edwards/Cheney).
The man who translated in French was not terrible, but it looks like that Kerry had an advantage in the end (especially about healthcare) ?

Saez: It is interesting to see the level of interest over there for our election. It looks like it is going to be close. It has, however, gotten very shallow and dirty. Donerail

Donerail : so, landslide, eh ?

CRC