Ethics Thread:

Okay here’s the first quote:

"frankessary: you are truly an amazingly ignorant, disgraceful, specimen of a human being."
Poetically written by Donerail

Hey, this is kind of funny.

Ethics Thread, He he

Oh Wow! Donerail,

Did you really say that? I want to make absalutly sure before I start criticizing your comment.

To All,

While we do not necessarily agree with the idea of having a ‘name-calling’ forum, it may be a good idea to have a place to post problems encountered on the site. The acrimonious debate about France/USA/Iraq is unfortunately bound to create some name-calling and other ridiculous posts.

So here’s what we’ll do: we’ll leave this forum up, but we will delete the comments left there after reviewing the forums/posts that are being reported here. We will either delete or edit the posts as per our Forums policy.

Thank you for helping us keep the France.com forums an informative and entertaining venue to learn more about France, French culture and the inimitable French mind!

Amero-Franco:

Thank you for starting this thread…I had decided that I would not make any more comments on this site after I noticed that Donerail, if someone disagrees with him, tells them that they are either ignorant or uneducated. When he called me a schophenic(spl?) and professed to be a psychiatrist, I decided that this site was not for me…It is amusing to me that he thinks that I am uneducated and ignorant because I am from the South…of course, I realize that many (because I have lived there and I know this for a fact)Northerner’s have this impression of Southerner’s whether it is true or not…It is a shame that Donerail has to belittle and put down other people to make himself feel better…He does not sound like a psychiatrist…I still read the comments, though and Donerail tried to gloat me into coming back with a remark he made…i.e., "I wonder what happened to ikorrellim, I miss her so" and then of course the lady who lives in New Jersey of French descent had to agree with Donerail…Anyway, I am glad that there is someone of this site who is logical and fair minded…I have enjoyed reading your comments…and the others…except when it becomes a game of two against whoever else decides to say anything that is not agreed on…I guess America is losing it…Freedom of Speech I mean…a person cannot voice their opinions and express themselves without being ridiculed and written off as ignorant and uneducation…Thank you…I feel better now…
P.S. Because I was born in the South does not make me uneducated nor ignorant…The person or people who feel this way should look at themselves and their agenda…THOU DOEST PROTEST TOO MUCH…comes to mind…

and a comment to Donerail and his friend of French descent who lives up North…

I know there are typographical errors in the last post…I know how to spell…however, I felt this extra comment needed to be added so that you don’t come back at me as being ignorant and uneducated because of a typo or two…

you guys obviously have waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much free time.

donerail is currently in France. I think the bashing should wait until he is here to defend himself. It’s not fair to pick on someone who can’t reply.

In all honesty, I have disagreed with him and corrected him and he has been very polite about it.

Personally, I don’t care for the whole bashing thing anyway . . . no matter who is doing it or why.

To me the forum is a wonderful gift where we can exchange information about France and when people start name calling and using foul language, it chases away people who might otherwise contribute to the forum. Most people don’t care for either bad words or bad names. They are usually either too afraid or too shy to say anything. They just disappear into cyberspace and we are all the poorer for their absence.

In the spirit of kindness and free speech (everyone’s free speech), I hope we can discuss instead of argue. I hope we can present different points of view without resorting to foul language. We don’t all have to agree, probably can’t, but we can all be polite.

SalB:

I don’t think anyone is saying anything about Donerail that he hasn’t already heard…I have pointed out to him in posts that when someone does not agree with him that he immediately dismisses them as ignorant or uneducated…then he seems to relish in making derogatory remarks about my being from the South dismissing my comments as being ignorant or uneducated BECAUSE I AM from the South…

Perhaps when he returns, his mind will be refreshed, and he will see where he has been heading on these posts…As for me, I read on last Friday, April 2nd’s post and simply decided that the post was not for me…However, I read Amerco-Franco’s new thread on Monday, April 5th…and thought, perhaps there is some hope for this forum…

It’s odd, but since I originally logged onto France.com to book hotels, I guess I just assumed the forum would be about travel and culture. I thought people would ask questions about France such as interesting places to visit, good restaurants, good hotels, what time of year to go, what to wear, where to find things, etc.

I was more than a little surprised to find political debate here, and I was more than a little annoyed to discover people thought it was okay to abuse anyone who disagreed with their opinion. The language and attitude really put me off. It seemed as though people could anonymously engage in abusive tirades simply because they were online and invisible. I find that a bit frightening.

I toyed with the idea of simply deserting the forum entirely, but the occasional question about French travel would appear and I would reply and return to the forum.

I think I’ve reached the point that I try to avoid the political discussions, try to avoid the name calling and just read and reply to the posts that seem to be genuinely travel oriented.

The one thing that truly bothers me here is there are a lot of young people, specifically teenagers, and I think the adults should set a less confrontive tone and exhibit better manners to set an example to these young people. I wonder if anyone else has thought of that? Whether we like it or not, we are an example of an adult traveler. How do we want to present that example?

SalB,

Could not agree with you more. These forums (every forum for that matter), have a life of their own. We respect the fact that there are a lot of young people on our forums (even though, they should almost all get to learn to write English correctly!), and we actually think that providing them with a venue for learning more about France and French culture is a good thing.

Unfortunately, as you point out, it comes at a price: childish remarks, horrible spelling (not just from the teenagers, it appears) name calling, bad manners… By the way, let the record show that the hostility is served from both ends of the political spectrum.

We do not want to have to read through all messages before posting them because, well, frankly, we believe in everyone’s right in voicing their concerns, and participating in the debate, any debate.

It seems a little ridiculous to have different forums based on the age of the participants, even though that would probably solve the problem. Another idea would be to not have debates about political issues here, but there is no reason to limit the scope of issues being discussed…

It’s a complex issue, and we’re open to your ideas. Salb, and others, should not have to feel put off by these forums.

Let’s all make an effort to try and get away from the cheap invectives, the easy, snide remarks, and mostly, from the atrocious spelling.

Again, we’re open to your ideas. Help us make our forums a place of debate and information worthy of the time of anyone older than 13.

To y’all:

This thread reminds me of a group of middle school students. You don’t like what one or two people say, so while somebody isn’t here you make a new thread specifically for supposed insults.

You dont like what somebody says so you try to censor them, or have their posts pulled for "supposed" insults.

I know some high school students with more maturity than you.

This is a forum and we still have the right to FREE SPEECH. If you don’t like what is being said, then you don’t have to be here.

LB-V:

Note who post to SalB was from…maturity? Delta is ready when you are…

ikorrellim:

look in the mirror, lady. the francecom post mentions positive things, like learning about french culture, not bashing france and europe, as you do, every chance you get. And let’s not forget your snide remarks, for example the "delta is ready when you are.." comment.

Before you (or anybody else here) decide to criticize somebody by name in this thread (for saying things you don’t like or agree with), look at YOURSELF first.

ikorrellim: my username is LaVieilleBranche NOT LV-B or some other screen name. If you cannot type those French words, then you can copy/paste my username into a post.

SalB:

I agree with you. I originally came into this website to see positive things about France and Europe. I’m sick and tired of all this French boycott nonsense and wanted to see something positive.

I haven’t replied much in the past week or two because of all the negativity. I thought that by explaining the French view, I could enlighten some of the people here as to WHY the french think/do what they do. But enlightenment requires an open mind and this non-stop france bashing is really putting me off.

SalB: YES! I DO NOT MIND if you bookmark my photo album i’m going to france right after Easter and I’ll have some new photos to upload in the coming weeks. So don’t forget to check back into the album in a few weeks from now.

p.s. I don’t have enough time on this trip to go to the Jura, to Malbuisson it’s so peaceful there, too!

Look, This Forum is not for free speach and I think the admin will agree. It’s only for Proper dialog; Not for name calling etc.

Yea, I feel like calling you alot of things, but I hold them back because we need some common ground by which to argue in. Just calling people closed minded doesn’t really get anywhere other than make yourself feel good.

Another un Ethical post:

"I know somebody with a personality/attitude very similar to yours, and she was diagnosed as bipolar. Maybe some meds might help you."
-By LaVieilleBranche

Amero-Franc:

ahhh so this forum isn’t for free speech? Then you’re NOT an american, are you?

One of the RIGHTS we still have here is FREE SPEECH. If you don’t like what is being said here, then you’re perfectly free to LEAVE. That is a right we also have, you don’t like what is being said you can just walk away. Attempting to censor/pull somebody’s posts simply because YOU dont like something is UNAMERICAN, and UNDEMOCRATIC.

If you want to be a censor, then move to Russia, China or any Middle East country. China’s government controls nationally which web sites their citizens can view. You might like it there better.

Go read Francecom’s post, the 3rd paragraph. Read it carefully, VERY carefully…

LaVieilleBranche,

You are so very very deeply wrong.

Freedom of speech does not mean you can say anything you want while on someone elses domain.

If a News Paper doesn’t like what someone says it’s perfectly okay if they deside to fire him.

This web-sight is not operated by the Government, so who ever owns the domain can regulate what is said.

The Admin has perfect right to do anything he wants to your posts. Even it this was the case when you clicked the I agree button you denied all rights to your posts.

Amero-Franc: I have returned from LaFrance and I had a wonderful time. This is an interesting thread and I would like to nominate you, ikorrellim, sweird, and frankessary for special recognition hereunder. Like most others, I found and joined this site to learn more about France and participate in a healthy interchange of ideas and opinions. One thing that I have a weakness for is not being able to tolerate intollerance. I think you probably mean well but I cannot understand most of your posts. Your posts tend to ramble all over the lot. The other 3 nominees, however, I do understand. I understand those folks quite well. They can dish out intolerance quite easily but get so worked up when it is tossed back at them. I think debate is healthy and I agree with SalB and the Administrator that it would be nice if it could be kept on a higher plane. It pains me to see that the militaristic ikorrellim is so thinned skinned. She has yet to answer some very basic questions that I asked of her some time ago. I am for free speech in whatever form and I would not want those people censored. You, however, really need to figure out the spell check feature. And to sweird, amero-franc quoted me accurately. crc95: good observation. Donerail

donerail:

No, I am not thin skinned…I did not answer because I did not feel that you warrant an answer…in other words, at ease soldier…your dismissed…

ikorellim: you are pathetic beyond description. Donerail

ikorellim: I just remembered onr of our forums member’s revelation about you. Were you successful in picking up anyone? Financially secure with all those homes, you must me a great catch! Gawd, how pathetic. Donerail

donerail,

I want to thank you for putting your own uninspiring unethical comments on the Ethics thread.(the second post and donerails first on this page) Thank you for turning yourself in.

Donerail:

To put your jeolous remarks at ease, and your friend LV-B’s, I did get an overwhelming response…The replies I received from the French only resulted in a few e-mails as I decided that I did not want to get involved (even on e-mail) with these Frenchmen or any Frenchman…However, I did get responses from other parts of the world, "New Europe"…and a very interesting young man whom I correspond with all the time who is Pakistani and living in Islamabad… He has taught me a lot about the Muslim religion, his area, his culture, his employment…I look forward to our correspondence as I believe he does also…and I am planning a trip to Pakistan in the fall…The young man tells me that I will not have a thing to worry about (security) and that he will show me the sites in Islamabad…Although this is really none of your business, he and I have become close friends and I am looking forward to meeting him in person…

As far as looking for a romantic attachment, I have one of my own right here in good ole South Carolina…I was interested in perhaps having a "guide" if and when I chose to visit France…However, I have decided that that is definitely NOT a place that I want to spend my American dollars…

Because I reach out to others of different nationality, culture, does not make me what you and V-B are hinting ..but, WHATEVER BLOWS BOTH OF YOUR SKIRTS UP, I suppose…

ikorellim: You are entertaining if nothing else. The Pakistani’s are fine people as are their neighbors, the Indians. I hope you are able to make something of that relationship. However, I am sure it won’t be long before you make some sort of a huge social or political gaffe. It is a shame that you have written off perhaps the greatest culture on Earth – La France. Meanwhile, keep those prayers coming in for me. Can’t you just see how docile I’ve become? Donerail

amero-franc: I don’t know how to express this in more diplomatic terms. But since ikorellim is praying for me, I will try. Your spelling is improving but your sentence structure still makes no sense whatsoever. Maybe you should start praying for me in addition to ikorellim. Then I will be able to impart some knowledge to you. Or you could wait for LavielleBranche to return to continue your education. Donerail

Donerail:

I will continue to pray for you…You are very unreal…you seem to live not in the "real world" but one that you choose to make for yourself…I do believe that you have "tunnel vision" as I suspect that you have lived in Mass. all your life except for the short time that you served your country…By the way, you never did answer my questions? Where did you serve, in what branch, what was your MOS and what were the years that you served…Never mind, don’t answer, because I am sure that you would lie to try and elevate your status…and we know that "psychiatrist" should be truthful with their patients so that they can form a trust in each other…

It is no concern of yours who, how or what I do…I have many, many long lasting relationships…probably not your case, except old friends, neighbors, relatives from the old neighborhood…Your going to France and expressing your love for the country and the food does not impress me…It is cheaper to fly to Europe and visit than it is to fly across America…I do that several times a year…you know, my apartment in Long Beach…You seem to be jeolous or mentioned my three homes, yes…I do have three, one condo in Florida, one apartment in LB and a home in South Carolina…I also forgot to mention that I own a working farm and receive from the leasor of the land some of the most glorious strawberries, tomatoes, etc. that you have ever eaten…Now, why don’t you and LV-B back off and stop going for somebody’s juglar vein…If you want to argue with someone and be hostile, why not do it face to face…however, WE ALL on this forum know why the both of you choose not to do that…

I am afraid that the both of you have delusions of grandeur…think about it…in the mean time, I will continue to pray for you…you certainly need all the help you can get…

ikorellim: I do not know what makes you think I would have a tendency to lie or make up things. You seem to be such a nice person. Warm, understanding, giving, and very unpretentious. Not an iota of defensiveness in your entire being. Love, Donerail

ikorellim: Tell the forum more about your brilliance and affluence. It is so exciting. Praise the Lord. Donerail

"you ARE a blithering idiot"

-LaVieilleBranche

Kick the habit!

Amero-Franc:

The truth hurts, doesn’t it?

This type of name calling never gets anywhere, even if it is true.

If I am a blithering idiot, let my own words say that.

Amero-Franc:
the words you posted DID show that you are a blithering idiot..go back and reread your posts, if you dare…

Then if they said it plainly themselves. WHy did you have to say anything about how idiotic it is.

Amero-Franc: You have outdone yourself with a new record low point. Donerail

donerail,

What do you mean?

Why should one enfect a perfectly good argument with name calling? (That is assuming it is perfectly good)

Look, this is not a football game. With: "Way to go" "Good one" "Your just stupid"

On that praticular forum we were having a debate over an issue.

amero-franc: This forum is for enlightenment and entertainment. You are not very enlightening but you are very entertaining. Donerail

. . . you can attract more bees with honey than with vinegar . . .

donerail: hahahahahahaah

SalB: Not that it matters much in the grand scheme of things, but I dislike both bees and honey. Honey itself is probably ok, but when I was younger someone told me it was actually bee barf. I haven’t had it since. I was tempted though this past April at the open market in Nuits St. George. A farmer had a gorgeous display of local honey. Donerail

Bee barf . . . Good grief, how young were you? Didn’t you have to take biology in high school?

Isn’t Nuits St. George wonderful????!!! Did you visit the Cassiseum? We had a grand time there. If you’re not tasting wine, you might as well be tasting cassis.

mmmmmmmmmmmm…..casses anybody want a fresh kir?