After being served up defeat I want to tell the French. Keep doing what you are doing. America is shifting conservative greater than I would have ever thought and the world will need as many moderate voices as it can get with the US pushing its conservative agenda.
I do have one small comment though on the "hate" side. Thanks for nothing when it came to your Presidents support for Kerry, it could have been the deciding factor, but who knows.
God help us all.
Disenchanted American.
154
154 Comments On France love and hate.
Are you saying that if Chirac had voiced official support to Kerry, this would have boosted his popularity among US voters ?
lol
Dude, what mushrooms are you on ??
CRC
Shrewd,
All France had to do was back the U.S. when we asked for it. But instead France chose to take bribes from a Dictator.
C’mon Kfowl, stop that Neo-Con bullsh**t!!!!
us said:"All France had to do was back the U.S. when we asked for it."
Only brainless people like u will do everything when asked for it. What u don’t like about us is that no matter who is asking before we do everything for one of our friend, each time, we first do something that will be hard for u to understand but I will spell it slow: we * T H I N K * first.
If my best friend ask me to kill someone I will not say yes because it is my best friend, I will think first and I will say no if I think that it is a bad idear. No surprise u can’t understand that, it requiers brain.
In Afganistan they where proof that Bin Laden was under governement protection and that is why UN had no problemes with it’s invasion. That is the purpose of UN find solid proof to avoid stupid invasion especially UN have experience and plan when war is over.
In Irak Bush’s administration had no after war plan (quoting Richard Pearl one of the closest Bush’s advisor) and there’s 1100 dead US soldier to testify of that very sad fact.
France is the historical FIRST allied to USA and it will stay that way despite what u can say, France is still working as we speak with USA in Afganistan, In Haïti and in Kosovo EXPLAIN ME HOW CAN U WORK HANDS IN HANDS WITH SOMEONE WHO SUPOSELY STABED U IN THE BACK SUCKER?.
Chirac NEVER support neither Kerry or Bush, Chirac ALWAY said in interviews that he is not suppose to interfere into US politics and he’s right about that (unlike Poutine).
The first foreign leader who flyed to united states to show he’s support to USA the day after 9/11 was? Blair for England? Berlusconi for Italy? Sharon for Israël? NO GUESS AGAIN …
No?
Nothing?
TADAAAA!!!! it was Chirac for France.
What nation put the most soldier in Afganistan after USA in 2002 and still now in 2004? France again!!! Not UK, FRANCE!!!!!!
What where the top 3 nation who put the more troops during the first Gulf war in 1991? 1-USA 2-UK 3-FRANCE. Same top 3 in Kosovo when NATO did bomb the serbia (even tough France is no NATO).
In France we have to deal with terrorist attack since 30 years in France now. Before 9/11 USA never give a damn about our problemes with terrorist even when we asked for Intelligence help.
Now after 9/11 u guyz realize that terrorism was a big deal and U decide to go to Afganistan to deal with the problemes, and we did approve because at this time it was the right thing to do and UN agreed as well.
STOP THE LIE AND THE NAZI-LIKE PROPAGANDA WE DID NOT STABED U IN THE BACK IN IRAK!!!!!! THEY WHERE NO REASON TO GO IN IRAK!!!!! They where better reason to go in Iran or in North Korea or in Tchetchenia or in Pakistan or in Saoudi Arabia etc… etc… than Irak.
A REAL FRIEND IS SOMEONE WHO IS NOT AFRAID TO TELL U THE TRUTH!!!! THIS IS NOT BECAUSE WE SAID NO TO GO IN IRAK THAT IT SUDDENLY DESTROYED MORE THAN 200 YEARS OF PARTENERSHIP AND SUPPORT IN BOTW WAY AND THAT WE STABBED U IN THE BACK, EVEN STUPID PRESIDENT WILL NOT MAKE THAT HAPPEND!!!! And it is not because stupid redneck believe it that it make it the thruth.
When u compare the number of death when the military operations where over between Irak and Afganistan don’t u realize that something is wrong there???? HOW DO U EXPLAIN THAT????
We know facism and nazi because they did invade our country once, u can bet that we can recognize them when we see them. And when I read u, I can tell that if u are no quiet there yet, but there’s not a long way.
Yes it must suck to be you, and it is sad as well.
Go back running after chicken and cows that is the best thing that u can do anyway.
Ces forums deviennent insalubres.
Before 11/3, it was possible to say that Bush was president without a real majority, but now, America’s citizens have clearly elected the same idiot as their president. The one who invented the war against terorism, a no brain theory, won.
The "no culture" and "no intelligence" way of life won.
Those Neocons are now remaking history, and I’m afraid of what is going to be teached in american schools.
Sorry for Donerail, CrazyHorse, SalB, Myfarside:
when cops like kfowler are the majority, when you make a file with a photo of every person who enter in your country, when who is not with you is against you, you can say you live in a jail: 1984’s orwell’s Big brother will be the next step.
Could one of you explain to me what the american dream is now?
I feel like to cry because I loved america…
LVB, Manu, Crc: I think that it’s up to the 48% to wake up the 51%. As long as we’ll show hate for Bush, he will be stronger. We’d better shut up, this kind of persons feed themselves by the hate of the other. They have elected a Le Pen, and they don’t know it…
Kfowler: you’ve won, and I’m sorry for you… The day you’ll find yourself on the gun’s wrong side, you’ll know this feeling the world has, when the strongest country’s president is nothing but a ( bad ) war chief, with 51% of war lovers behind him.
Qui vit par l’épée périra par l’épée.
Montjoly.
Shrewd,
First of all, I don’t think the country is shifting conservitive. I just think the majority of Americans believe religion has a place in American life. Second, I think the majority of Americans have morals and know right from wrong. So the majority of Americans belief Partial-Birth Abortion, which is killing a baby that is 6 months old while still inside the mother. I have news for you, a 6 month baby inside the mother is still a child and still a life and Partial-Birth Abortion is still murder.
Third, Americans believe in Sanctaty of Marriage between a man and a woman. I agree that the Gay men & Lesbian Women should be able to live together and be able to have some type of Domestic Partership, but it should not be called Marriage because it is not the same type of relationship as with a man & woman.
Forth I believe most Americans had a problem voting for a Presidential Canidate that was a Roman Catholic, but believed in Partial-Birth Abortion. Were Kerry a true Catholic like he says he is, He would against Abortion period expect to preserve the life of the mother. Liberal America just doesn’t get it, that this country was founded on FREEDOM OF RELIGION. Thats why IN GOD WE TRUST is on our money, & thats why SO HELP ME GOD is in every oath from the military to the President.
If you liberals hate Morals, Religion, & God so much maybe you all should either move to Canada or Europe because as you can see most of America has made up its mind. So you can either live with it and get behind it or leave. Sorry, but thats the truth and they way it is.
CRC,
Yes, shrewd is saying that. If France & Germany said they would send troops to Iraq if Kerry was elected President, I belive it would have made a difference. But instead France & Germany said a week or so before the election, it doesn’t matter who is President of the U.S. we still won’t send any troops to Iraq.
So CRC, it also looks like America also send Europe a message. Saying if you in Europe are not going to help us either way why should we even bother changing Presidents. So CRC, as you can see whot goes around comes around.
Manu,
Thats why you didn’t even fire a shot when Germany invaded you. And that is also why most of french were a bunch of German colaberators. And that is why we Americans have give our lives to free your pathetic country. And by the way, our closed allies Britain, & Australia because they back when we ask them to. Why, thats simple because Britain & Australia look at the BIG PICTURE instead of just think of their own little lives.
And as for the fact that 1,100 U.S. soldiers died in Iraq. Thise soldiers enlisted, just like I did and they knew exactly what could happen. And if the people who enlisted didn’t believe they could die, then they were stupid. In plain english, our military is all volunter and they chose that job, and if required die for their country. If they were prepared to die for the U.S. they should have NEVER ENLISTED!!!
Mont,
Well don’t feel sorry for me. It wasn’t Bush who invented the WAR ON TERROR, it was Osama on 9/11. Unlike you people we believe in LOYALTY. So the U.S. number one rule is NEVER VOTE OUT A WAR TIME PRESIDENT, and it has never happened to this day.
Sorry, but most of us Americans have morals and most of us don’t believe in abortion or sleeping around. It is a concept known as loyalty, maybe you’ve heard of it.
crc95/LourdePersonne/Montjoly/ManuNice/shrewd: Well, it doesn’t look good. I am obviously not in "Main Stream America." What we have now is a religious fanatic with a mandate. Without a mandate he managed to pound the economy down the rathole, enrich his oil buddies, get most of the civilized world to be afraid of us, and start a war in Irak for which he will not admit was an error. (In fact, he said he would do the same thing again.) Now he has a mandate. Time to stock up on gold. The country is populated by 51% or more of folks who speak and think like kfowler5. Eventually, we will come to our senses – or the world will force us to. If not, the world will all be in trouble as these people will never admit to a mistake. It will be someone else’s fault. Probably France and Germany. And it will be true because God would have told them so. Donerail
kfowler5: I think I have figured you out and I will so enlighten you and the Forum. Like many folks who have a fetish for guns and have spent a few years in the military and then think they are Rambo, and many police officers who love the flashing lights and the feeling of power (especially cleaning up their own crime infested family and neighborhood) – I believe you suffer from an extremely small penis. Thus the need to stroke your gun and all the while praising the Lord as you do it. I don’t know if those penis enlargement pills work, but you should give it a try and see if it helps. Meanwhile, you have the mandate, it will be a hoot to see how you goobers use it. The first casualties seem to be separation of church and state and the Bill of Rights. I just can’t wait to see how many other improvements are in store. And when you’ve failed it will be interesting to see who you blame it on. Certainly God will tell you. Donerail
crc95/Montjoly: Mrs. Donerail and I are in serious need of adoption. My "Plan B" is to join a French monastery (but that might be "hard work" as The Chimp would say.) Sure looks like LVB and SalB will be exploring similar options. If the French hadn’t given us all that support in 1776, we wouldn’t have the problems that we have today. Its all your fault. I will be in La France (Normandie) in three days. I hope the Pont Normandie is high enough. Donerail
ManuNice: Sorry, I got you confused with Montjoly. Can you adopt Mrs Donerail and me? Donerail
Kfowler get u’re fact straith u’re nazi-like propaganda won’t work here, 1st french people get 5 weeks of vacation per year not 9, because we like to spend time with our children u probably don’t and see the way u behave It is no surprise. We work to live, we don’t live for work. 2nd France ain’t NATO General De Gaulle Decide to withdraw from NATO in the 60’s (and this guy claims to be a major in history ROFLMFAO!!!!) U’re a major in making out with animals!!!!!! As for the rest of u’re WW2 bullsh*t well I won’t even bother to respond I will have more luck speaking with a pig. Go back dating u’re farm animals that is what u do best…LOL.
U sound fat and I can even tell that u smell too. Being insulted by such a nazi-racist-fanatic-redneck make me very proud… Please continue… On another hand I will never reply to u again, u are so pathetic, my time is too precious, I can’t waste one more minutes in something that u made, typed or said, the only idear of someone like u being alive make me sick. And u can be sure that in opposition of u, I will keep my word in that matter.
Donerail: religion and politics are not good friends, Billions of people have died because of that. We french have probably made some mistake like everyone else but one of the thing I am very proud is that we separate religion from the politics. Everyone here is free to do whatever he wants to do at home, we just don’t want to have to deal with religion, any kind of religion on our buisness or in our governement. When we take a decision we take it because we did decide to do it, not because a "god" told us to do so. For me Bush is no better than Bin Laden, he speak in the name of gods and he act in the name of God… With all due respect for religious people (more than 90% of US citizen), I found Incredible that in the 21st century people kill other people in the name of something that no one have never seen. That really sucks. But that just me…
It is hard to argu with this guys because to do so you need to go down to their level and once u’re there they are kicking u’re butt because they are way too experienced…
donerail: LOL I understand, I will be ashame of my people if I had to read the same bullsh*t that make the other animal lover.
U are most welcome, i’m gonna be a father next april so 1 or 3 is almost the same… but unfortunatly Europe will be a short relief because after starting a war for imaginary weapon they could do the same to europe because we don’t think the same way as well…
even if its eary congrats on being a father soon ManuNice.I hope it all gos well.And yes the usa and france dispit what some of my fellow amaricans say,well all ways be friends.
thank you verry much oddone, it early indeed but it always feel good and I thank you for that. As for the rest you are right, even if bad apples can damage the good one in the basket, the good apple are still on the tree.
Donerail: You’re welcome in French Guiana.
Manu: Felicitations pour le futur papa:-))). Mon fils a trois mois maintenant et il sourit tout le temps, c’est un enchantement.
C’est ton premier?
Kfowler: about abortion, I don’t like it too much, there’s other ways better and safer not to have childrens, like the condom, but you may be against condom also?
Now, imagine your daughter, pregnant, after having been taken by force. Do you want the baby to born? Will you be loyal and stand nearby him, to see this demon’s son everyday, to speak as you do, growing into your family ???
About your rule "never vote out a war time president", which seems to be your eleventh comandment, I’m afraid it will become really easy to a president to be re-elected in your country: he’ll just have to begin a new war against another small country, and you’ll have to follow your rule, even if this president is democrat, Mrs Clinton for example. Will you vote for her to obey to your famous rule?
No, really, you’ve too much rules for me: america is not the country of freedom anymore… but I should visit your country to understand what is your problem: I’d like to discover where is this intolerance coming from ( excepted of course if Donerail is right with the penis small size theory …).
On another hand, I’d like to know if you speak a foreign language and why did you come on France.com if you hate France so much? Just curious…
Montjoly
Hello All!
Times are indeed tense, and this is being reflected in your posts.
Unfortunately, it seems that posters from all sides can’t seem to understand that we, at France.com, do not condone personal attacks, insults and foul language.
So, to all of you who contribute to these forums, we are asking you to be careful with the language you use.
You have the right to contribute freely to these forums, as long as you follow our terms of service. Please read them before posting.
We have edited out some foul language (coming from both sides of the cultural divide!). We will continue to delete or edit messages that are not in accordance with our forums policy.
We’ll say it one more time: do not use foul language or personal attacks on thse forums. If this is not to your liking, if you can’t help yourself, there are thousands of websites out there that will be happy to have you spew rage and insults. Not us.
We are for an open-minded debate. We would like to have these forums as a place to engage partisans of all sides to discuss the future of our countries, among other topics, of course.
Those who cannot comprehend this will not be allowed to post on the forums any longer. Posts that contain language that we deem foul, or simply not ‘family friendly’ will be edited or deleted, without any further notice.
We’re looking forward to a spirited debate.
France.com Forums Admin
ForumsAdmin: Why don’t you help us out and save you and everyone else a lot of time. Tell us what those foul words are and those family unfriendly words and phrases. Donerail
crc95: Looks like Ashcroft, oops im sorry, Asscroft has penetrated into the ranks of the Forum Admin management. Donerail
Donerail : don’t be too harsh on Forum_admin. I mean, can you believe that these boards were supposed to deal with the many charms of Provence or the châteaux de la Loire in the first place ?? Lol … see how far we’ve been drifting
Also, don’t forget that, as I wrote before, SalB is not here right now to police these boards.
Hey Donerail, about that adoption thing : of course you can always count on me to help you out, but since you’re older than my dad, I don’t think the adoption process would work or would be welcomed here. However, I could always *adopt* a daughter or niece or even mistress of yours, provided she’s single, rather cute and in her late twenties. Yes, given the seriousness of the situation, I’d be willing to make this sacrifice. That’s what real friends do.
Kfowler : I thought of you baby. I stumbled upon this really cool Senate / OMB 1994 report that lists all the weapons the US sold to Iraq. Pretty impressive. Let me digest the whole thing through and I’ll send you the link. You’re gonna love this. There’s also a report that shows evidence that the US were the #1 country to benefit from Iraqi oil exports between 2000 and 2002. I’m saving this for your Xmas. I hope you don’t commit suicide after reading this. Or worse, leave the forum.
CRC
(writing from the great city of Lugdunum, France).
crc95: I was relieved to see a post from you. I thought maybe you were using the eff word and the Administrator was deleting you. Lets see. I see no reason that a younger person couldn’t adopt an older person. It would probably be legal in Massachusetts. I don’t have any unmarried daughters. I can’t talk about mistresses. Its encouraging that we are talking the right sex, however. I need help though. I am meeting more and more people like kfowler5 and dholland62. There was a listing that came out today with the voting summarized by the IQ of the various states inhabitants. Kerry won by a overwhelming landslide. SalB and LVB have some explaining to do. We are being governed by idiots. If you can’t adopt me and Mrs Donerail, maybe your sister or parents or mistress would? I have a Harley. Donerail
crc95: Good point. I don’t think a lot of people realize how much US stuff was in the hands of Irak. Or Iran for that matter. The second biggest user of the F-14 Tomcat is Iran. We poured tons of stuff into Irak during the Iraq/Iran war. That said, I can tell you the US does police pretty actively what we can sell to various countries. It is a whore of a business that I am in. Donerail
Donerail,
It’s not only the foul language (you don’t need an exhaustive list, come on!), it’s also the personal attacks.
Do you also need to be explained what these are?
FA
Tsss… I could quote 50 posts left with personal attack.
I really wonder why it tooks so long for a moderator to pops in here and suddenly realize that a couple of racist where calling people names. In my opinion it took you way too long.
I first did register here because I tought that France.com was a french website, then when i did realize it was not I tought that it should be a highly moderated place. But after 5 month here and especially those past week, I realize that there’s way too much hate here.
I tought that I could help people to get answer to their question, I never tought I had to deal with racist/facist people that claim to be the reflect of the great american people. Reading their posts make me sick and when I do read "U lazy french and socialist sc**bag" well, if u expect me to say nothing and wait 3 weeks for someone to show up and realize that something is wrong here then U expect wrong. I rather prefer reading "why u got this reputation of taking too much holidays" then I’ll be glad to answer and make some explanation, but it is certainly not a perfect world.
Don’t get me wrong, I respect freedom of speech, but most forums that I know are moderated, this one IMHO is not and in this case it is my right to stop posting here.
Despite the fact that this website is pretty neat, those forums are a shame to my people and I won’t continue to justify it’s existence by continuing on posting it.
LVB, Donerail, Salb, Crc95, Montjoly, Crazyhorse, oddone, shrewd and others that I forgot, I u guyz need any Information about anything regarding the "Provence" area feel free to email me : manunice@hotmail.com I’ll be glad to help you.
Take good care… And cya somewhere else…
Poops… I’m gone…
ManuNice: I hope you don’t leave. This is the internet and it more or less reflects whats out there in the real world. I think the likes of kfowler5 and dholland62 will be quite pleased that they will have driven someone away from this site. I know you are not viewing it quite that way, but that is they way that I view it. I have learned so much from folks like you, crc95, Montjoly and others that are not Americans. I have also learned from SalB, LVB, Crazyhorse, and others that are Americans. And, oh yes, I have learned from kfowler5 and dolland62 as well – not nice stuff with those two – but its the real world. So much of my nation is filled with hate. I have learned that if you give into it, that it will only grow unabated. And if they are censored, as you and the Forum Admin would prefer, it won’t help solve the problem. ManuNice: Those bigots cannot hurt you on here. They can inspire emotions from you but they cannot hurt you. You cannot hurt them either. But you can and should point out to those depraved creatures just exactly what you think of them. Those neo-facists could very intimidate you in the real world – and they probably would. But you should not let them do that to you here. Donerail
Donerail,
you are wrong again. We are just sick of the rest of the world coming to us for money or when they need our military help. And as for religion, the U.S. was founded on religion. That is why it say IN GOD WE TRUST on our money and that is why every public offical who takes office on our country puts their hand on the HOLY BIBLE when they take that owth. Religion has always been part of the U.S. we just got sick of seeing you liberals try to take religion out of every part of our society and government, especially the U.S. CONSTITUTION.
Manu,
To bad the TRUTH REALLY HURTS doesn’t it. As for me being fat, I run 5 miles a day and weight 120lbs. And everything I said about you pathetic NAZI COLLABORATORS is true, because I cheched more than a dozen sources. It sounds to me that you FRENCH changed your history books because you couldn’t handle the truth. While your at it tell your women to shave once and a while. And just remember you French need our Tourist dollars than we will EVER need you.
Good, I hope you don’t reply to this. That will definately make the INTERNET which the U.S. invented a much more pleasurable please.
Mont,
If my Daughter was raped I certainly would not blame the innocient baby the born because of it. And besides there is something known as ADOPTION.
If Mrs. Clinton is elected President and she brings into war that is legal and morally right, yes I would support her.
The size of our penis has nothing to do with it, we are just sick of the rest of the world trying to tell us how to live our lives and how to protect ourselves.
No, I do not speak a foreign language and that is the other thing we Americans can’t stand. People from other countries coming here to live and they don’t even bother to try to learn English, instead they say America has to cater to them, well we don’t because we never wanted these foreigners here to begin with.
I happened to find this site by mistake.
ManuNice,
First off, you’re absolutely right that it took us too long to edit these posts. We had hoped that people would be responsible enough to understand that this is a place for discussion, not for hate-filled flaming.
While we realized that the posts were getting more nasty than they should have been, we hoped that this trend would die down and things would settle down. We had hoped that the members of all sides would understand that the best way to have a dialogue is to make your point serenely, without name-calling.
Regretably, it’s obviously not the case. Contrarily to what you’re saying, not only the red ‘retro’ posters have a tendency for insults and personal attacks. So do the blue ‘metro’ posters.
Donerail is right: your input is very useful and you’ll be missed.
Well, enjoy Provence’s life for us all.
ManuNice : I hope you don’t leave the forum. There’s not enough French people in here, and you probably understood that all the Americans in here need us to enlighten them on many subjects, whether it is pure tourism or the teaching of basic manners. Besides, I know this forum is supposed to be about French culture and stuff, but as you are now well aware of there are different boards and not all of them are political.
Donerail : Forum_admin didn’t delete nor edit any of my posts — well, since I stopped mentioning Drew Carey that is. Yet I kinda agree and even side with them : these last posts had gone a little too much below the waiste, and didn’t have much to do with a rational debate, however heated. All of this started when you guys started to lose your mind talking about football. Don’t forget that American football was primarily invented so that even the most retarded imbeciles could have a hobby, and a good reason to drink beer AND stay inside. I also do believe in unlimited freedom of speech, but this is their own private forum and they can do whatever they goddam please with it. Hey, they’re nice enough to actually host a forum !
Kfowler : I like the way you use stereotypes to try to make a point. I think it does add a lot of value to your posts. Keep going buddy boy, you’re almost there ! You really are a cop, no doubt about that.
CRC
CRC,
Thanks for your input. It’s good to know that some people actually enjoy the fact that we provide these forums.
We’ve come to doubt that lately…
😉
Hello….nice column. I just got back from Marigot, Fr. (St. Maartens Island in Southern Caribbean…) It was very very fine place.
Too bad the French charge so much for Parking and Boat docking.
Well….Donerail, I think some of your comments and words need
Translation, too! Really….a camera that goes door to door and street to street all over France? Jaune something?…..very Orwellian bunch I think.
Kfowler5: "If my Daughter was raped I certainly would not blame the innocient baby the born because of it. And besides there is something known as ADOPTION."
You don’t blame the baby but you give him to be adopt: nice, really nice mentality…
"If Mrs. Clinton is elected President and she brings into war that is legal and morally right, yes I would support her."
The war agaisnt Irak WAS NOT LEGAL, and your moral is the the moral of the strongest and the richest.
"The size of our penis has nothing to do with it, we are just sick of the rest of the world trying to tell us how to live our lives and how to protect ourselves."
I’m definitively not interested in your penis size, it was just a joke regarding to Donerail past post. There was no need to an answer about it, except if the truth hurts…
"No, I do not speak a foreign language and that is the other thing we Americans can’t stand. People from other countries coming here to live and they don’t even bother to try to learn English, instead they say America has to cater to them, well we don’t because we never wanted these foreigners here to begin with."
This is not because you are protectionist that you can’t show interest to other culture learning their language. As you may know, everybody on that earth knows a bit of english: we, in France, start to learn english when we’re 10 years old, every children learn it. We learn a second language when we’re 12, and sometimes a third. The best way to know and to understand a people, it’s understanding the language. I speak more or less fluently 4 languages just to be able to discuss with every body in my travels and I’d love to speak 2 or 3 more languages; but as you said you’re not interested in the others, you don’t want them in your country, and really, I don’t feel like to visit your country anymore.
"I happened to find this site by mistake".
You’ve borned by mistake.
Montjoly.
Yes..violence is bad. I still recall the young lady who wanted to
dress "parisian" and go to work in downtown Paris on the train and party as a 17 year old might…..but she was Moslem or something of a sect of it. Her brother doused her with Total Gas and torched her
in the laundry room of the "project highrise" by where Lindbergh landed years ago….violence in Sudan is bad too..I like to watch Oprah and see what the real stories about things in Arabia
CRC,
Well if you remember at the time we sold those weapons to Iraq, they were at war with Iran. So at the time it came down to who the U.S. thought was a bigger threat to the region and the U.S. National Security. Just remember allies are based on convience of the time. So the U.S. sold weapons to Iraq 20 years ago, thats makes it even more important that the U.S. clean up the mess that it helped to create.
However as for the U.S. being the #1 importer of Iraqi oil, that is wrong. The #1 country we import oil from is Saudi Arabia.
I was a very big supporter of the Late Armand Hammer. The money he gave to a neighboring College in Eastern Side of Los Angeles, Occidental, helped many who could not get into CAL or other places.
I am all for $50 per barrel Oil and hope that the Violence will subside and the Minarets and Mosques will be repainted…along with the
Place where my Dean Witter Reynolds interview occured in NYC
Mont,
As for giving child up for adaption being bad mentally, I will give you that. However, killing a child is ok? We know what morals you have, NONE!!!!!
As for the war in Iraq being Illegal, you are wrong again. If you recall at the end of the first Gulf War Saddam did not surrender, he signed a cease-fire aggreement. And the agreement stated that if Iraq did not follow the cease-fire agreement to the letter the state of war between the U.S. & Iraq could resume at the United States descretion. Well guess what, when Saddam kicked the U.N. Weapon Instectors out of Iraq in the Mid 90’s Iraq violated the cease-fire agreement.
Sort of like what happened in the Korean War. North Korea did not surrender, they signed a cease-fire agreement. Know what your talking about before you speak.
Unlike you my parents have morals & don’t believe in killing an innocent unborn child because they don’t think they can handle it.
So you would rather kill an innocent unborn child than give it up for adoption because you don’t want to deal with the feelings. But it’s ok to murder an innocent child, you need serious mental help.
As Usual, Donerail….you are wrong again…. your Dirksonian methods of Verbosity are just as bad as others from other places. Tolerance is the best most perfect policy.
Geez you guys:
I’ve been away for a while and I thought I’d catch up on what’s happen’ on the forum…I surely thought that everyone would be Bush Bashin’ and turning depression/anger from Kerry loss into constructive energy in a quest to move forward to 2006 and 2008.
Actually, I have been "bad" lately. Writing Rev Jerry Falwell and explaining to him that he is not without sin. Bible states: "All things in moderation". Last time I saw Falwell on TV, he looked like he was about 200 lbs overweight. I think the Bible calls it glutontry.
The reason I wrote and pointed our his "sin" was not because his support for Bush, but because I heard him on TV, and he was quoted in NYTimes as saying, "I think we ought to go over there and bomb them all in the name of Jesus". That angered me…and still does…and he professes to be a Christian? Evangelical’s are so "one way"…kinda like Bush, "My way or the Highway"…
I have also been busy writing my representatives, congressman and senators, Clinton, Kennedy, Kerry, Frist, Pilosi, Reid explaining to them that Bush (as he, Cheney and Rove have bragged) does not have a mandate. When an incumbent receives only 51% of the vote, with at least 2% being scared into voting for him (i.e., Cheney on trail, "if you don’t vote for us, you’re probably going to have a worse attack than 9/11), and also scaring evangelicals into voting for Bush because they are very frightened of gays, I would hardly call that a mandate.
God, guns and gays…Long live Jesusland…Anyone see the new map, blue states connected to Canada with heading, "United States of Canada", and the red states with a banner proclaiming, "Jesusland"…I am from the south, raised a staunch southern baptist, but, unlike the majority of "Jesusland inhabitants", I have traveled and been exposed to different ideas, cultures, etc. Don’t fault them too much for their "narrow-minded" beliefs…That is all they have known all their lives living in mostly rural America…God, family, distruct of anyone different.
Anyway, Donerail, I hope you have gotten over your disappointment…I haven’t yet, but I am incorporating my feelings into constructive energy and determined to help the democratic party win a seat in something here in Jesusland in 2006 and hopefully in 2008.
Actually, Democrats just need to come up with a good strategy…In SC…Kerry got 43% of the vote…of course, that vote came not from the rural areas, but from places like Charleston/Columbia…If we work hard at explaining our "values" to 2% of the population and hold onto the 49% that Kerry’s has now…We can win.
I understand that Kerry is working on holding onto his JohnKerry.com site and renaming it and working towards democratic victories for 2006 and 2008. If you have not visited or joined JohnKerry.com…go to the site…it is still there…I e-mailed the site a few times already…First one was to say, "We still got your back"…and we still lov ya Man…
Anyway, it was nice talking to ya’ll…and I hope that this conversation can turn around some of the stuff that is being said at present…in other words, "lighten up"…
Hello, Illokorim…welcome back…I was away too in Marigot and Old San Juan and saw some good and bad in San Juan.
I did vote for the Senator, myself…and I do wonder about Bush, Jr….not really about Bush Sr. except for his Badgering poor NH primary candidate Bob Dole the Veteran of Anzio at 5pm on the NBC and ABC news in 1988…that WAS a Bush league move.
I liked how Bush Sr. would not sit in Reagan’s chair after the Hinkley shooting. I liked how Bush Sr. got in that older plane over the Pacific and was almost a shark target. I like how Bush Sr. did relent to all kinds of solons in the Capital Dome and said READ these Lips..taxes WILL be needed cause we took down a few Walls in Germany!
and Prague and Hungary. I liked Bush Sr. because he told how his Mom, who was very rich and her Husband (his Dad)…His Mom said.."Now you George, you have it made, and if I ever see you using your standing or wealth to Put any one down or such..I will Whack you on the Back of your Harvard Head!" (or was it Eton?).
Once, a fellow precinct worker at a Dole rally said to me, in a deep kind of Voice: let’s go over and have Coffee and a Donut now that the Lady in Red is done with her "Bob Carried the Water for all those leaders" speech. And, I know now that after the last 4 years I have come to Admire more…a man I once disdained in High School…Richard M. Nixon of Duke Law School. That fellow worked hard, he came from Lindsay and Whittier here…he studied hard in real school settings, he learned a little Chinese so he could Toast Mao or Dung ChowPing with a Wine Class IN Peking! When he had Breshnev over for Leonid’s birthday, Nixon asked "white house staff to FIND INFO about What Leonid wanted most in Life as a Graduate school Metalurgist…And, Nixon knew when to guide the fellow into the Rose Garden to show him a Silver 71 Chevy Monte Carlo with NO miles on it.
Donerail,
Bush is not a religious fanatic. You just can’t handle the fact that the majority of the American people believe that killing a child in the mother’s body after 6 months (Partial-Birth Abortion)is murder. And you just can’t handle the fact that the majority of the American people DO NOT BELIEVE IN SAME SEX MARRIAGE. Come on now the majority of us Americans don’t care people have same sex relations or if they want their spouses to have rights, but we don’t think it is to much to ask that they call it something like (Civil Unions, Domestic Parters). If you really can’t stand the U.S. that much, I suggest that you move to Canada or Europe.
IKO,
What these Dems don’t tell you is that Bush won 90% of the counties in the U.S. . So if these Dems want to beak up the U.S. and join Canada they will have a very hard time.
Avec Pardonnes, Monsieur Fowler….lol…on local Radio radio stations, 103.3 FM KNGS (a big cheer for the death and cremation of Senor Arafat di Dove)…. I think that if George W. Bush of Yale University got 90% of all Counties in This state, the Golden one without the NeNe Geese or the
, then Journalist Novak who divulges CIA agents’ ID’s is a General Haig and Everett Dirksen Wannabee…or maybe "Wallaroo"
LoneStars or the Prairies (save in the "Big Valley"
kflowler5:
Of course we are not going to break up the union. That was tried before. However, if you will go to michaelmoore.com, you will see some cartograms that show exactly how this nation is broken down into red/blue. It was shown on CNN yesterday. The nation, as a whole is kinda purple. The reason it looks like the Reps control is because their is more land in red, but they don’t have the population. The blue states have the majority of corporations, research, industry, high wages and actually "support" the red states.
However, this is nothing to agonize about. History has a way of repeating itself. Back in the 20’s the Reps controlled the house, senate and white house. They bragged about having all the power and intenting to keep it. (sounds just like them now). Expect a lot of scandals and corruption to be revealed in this next four years. Just as in the 20’s…The people got so sick of the scandals and corruption that they voted the Reps out and the Dems were in charge until the 1960. If you recall, the Dixiecrats party were the south until the end of 60’s and early 70’s…Most dixiecrats, like my own beloved senator Strom Thurmond elected to go with the Rep Party…Why you ask? Well, think about it…What is majority of the Republican party made up of? White Males…does that tell you anything.
Anyway, the Reps look like they are controlling this country, and right now they are, however, they have dug themselves into a hole. There is already fighting and arguing from the "extreme right" about the appointment of Gonzoles (about some memo he wrote in 1967), and they are unhappy with Arlen Spector (fighting to keep him out of his Chair of Judicial Committee). They have no one to run in 2008 that is suitable to the extreme right; Juliano (is pro-choice), Pataka is pro-choice, Swartznegger is pro-choice and just signed a 3M bill in Ca for stem cell research. They have no bright stars that will satisfy the extreme right (religious right), so they have effectively boxed themselves in…We have a lot of bright starts rising, Clinton, Edwards, Visak, Richardson, Bayh…so we will wait, organize and rebuild our party’s platform…and 2008…the Reps will be dust…
k5:
Come on, anyone who would wait until they are six months pregnant to get an abortion is nuts…This issue was a "scare" tactic of Reps saying that democrats santion murder. Partial birth (at six months) would only be applicable in case the Mother’s life was in danger. Half issues and half truths have pushed Bush back into office. Of course, they did not try to clear things up. McCain would have made an outstanding President, but the Bush campaign had a whisper campaign against him in South Carolina that, "he might not be stable enough to be president because he spent 7 years in a Vietnam POW camp", also, "whisper campaign that he had a black baby"…He and his wife Cindy adopted a little baby girl from Bangladesh. Also, Max Cleland, triple amputee (Vietnam) from Georgia, Republicans said he was "unpatiotic"…
This time they sent out flyers in West Virginia that said if the Democrats won, they they would ban the bibie. I am so disgusted with the Republican Party (the Moral Party) that I could scream. They will stoop to anything to get elected and stay in office. Tom DeLay, if Dems had won, would be facing jail time for what he has done, is Ken Lay in jail? I don’t think so…
Like I said, watch for a lot of scandal and corruption to emerge in the next four years…the supporters of the Republican Party are ripe for it, corporations, pharmaceutical companies, Wall Street, etc.
Also, on this "moral issue", I have read extensively about people in the red states, (named names and all), had lost their jobs, were working at a job making 20,000 less and no health benefits, actually voted on the "moral issues"…Instead of thinking about their family and the moral obligation they have to support them properly, they voted to ban marriage for a gay couple they have never and probably will never meet. This is the right wing extremists. I do not think it is right that a government (nor I) can tell a woman if she can have an abortion or not. That is between herself, her family, her God and her physician. Also, the government does not (nor I)have a right to tell people who they can partner with. They should have their rights, benefits, etc. The extreme right is going to be very upset when they see that Bush does nothing about Roe v Wade. And a week before the election, he actually said that he did not object to civil unions if the states upheld it…
The religious right now thinks they have a "mandate" to call all the nominations for the WH, senate, house and supreme court. They have already started organizing to lobby Washington when they see an appointment being considered that they don’t like.
I do not think that the religious right has the right to dictate to 75% of Americans how they will life their lives. The religious right is 25% of vote…hardly a mandate or a majority…
IKO,
Well of course you are wrong. Lets see Bush got 20% of the African-American vote, 44% of the Hispanic vote, & 57% of the women’s vote. And you say the Republican party is mostly white men. Also I looked up Dixiecrats, they are southern democrats who usually vote republican.
Also, these so called blue states are bogus. What them Dems and the mainstream media don’t show or tell you is that 90% of the counties in the U.S. voted republican. Those blue states are blue because most of the high population centers like NYC, Chicago, L.A., and San Francisco voted for Kerry. And since the electoral vote goes by popular vote for a state, that is why the states are blue.
And as for the republicans not having anyone to run in 2008 I think Juliani is a perfect choice, even though he is pro-choice. And besides pro-choice doesn’t really matter anyway, what really matters is Partial-Birth Abortion and Gay Marriage. And you Dems will NEVER win the White House or Congress again if you support Gay Marriage or Partial-Birth Abortion. And those two issues are key for a person to get the Democtratic nomination.
And you Dems got voted out of Congress because the American people got sick of you guys blocking GOOD LAW like the Medicare Prescription Drug Plan, which the AARP supported. And the American people got sick of you guys saying we are going to tax the rich, and everytime you guys said that the Middle-Class ended up getting taxed and the people making under $10,000 a year got more welfare money. If you want to live in a welfare state move to Canada.
Kfowler, I have a funny question for ya. See, statistics show that the higher people get up the education ladder, the more they tend to side with the Democratic party. Examples : if only people with masters and PhD could vote, the Dems would win by a large margin each and every time.
Of course, it wouldn’t be a good thing and we couldn’t call this a democracy, but still, I need your opinion on this. If people with the highest education tend to support liberal ideas, well, what does it tell you ? Doesn’t it mean that the people with the knowledge may know what’s right a little more than retards, high-school drop-outs, illiterates, ignorants and CT cops do ?
Please feel free to tell me what you think.
CRC
IKO,
You are wrong again. Yes gay people living together is their own business until it effect other peoples lives. The American people will not be bullied into accepting something they do not believe in, I have news for you the U.S. was founded on religion. These same sex people can call it something else besides Marriage like Civil Unions, but no the gays want Marriage just to the get real majority of Americans mad.
If you think all these people who voted for Bush are religious fanatics then maybe you should move to Canada, because I can promise you that the real main-stream will not put up with your liberals **** anymore.
And as for the government not having any right to say who can have an abortion and who can’t , you’re wrong. The last time I checked, the right to have an abortion is not listed in the Constitution, so the government can regulate it. And a woman who not be able to have an abortion unless the father of the child is consulted, if possible. If the women don’t like it, they can always move to Canada.
Finally, the relious right might be only 25% of the vote. However Bush still got 52% of the popular vote, and since Bush can’t run for re-election again that is all the mandate he needs. SO GET OVER IT OR LEAVE!!!!
CRC,
Sorry to tell you not every college graduate votes Democratic. If you believe that, THAN YOU ARE A IDIOT!!!! And most of the college graduates who vote Democratic are most likely TEACHERS, and they certainly don’t want to give up their cushy jobs with raises every year and free medical insurace paid for with our money. God forbid the Teachers get a job in the private sector like the people who really run this economy.
Do you really think PhDs are teaching high-school kids in some lousy CT suburb ? LOL
Go ahead and try, I know you don’t like these facts, they hurt you, so try and round up 100 masters and PhDs, and do a survey among them, we’ll see the outcome !
Enjoy.
CRC
CRC,
I have news for you, idiot. In Connecticut Teachers must have at least a Masters Degree to teach. How do I know this, I make sure I know what my tax dollars are paying for. Next time try doing a little research before you open your BIG MOUTH!!!
CRC,
I also have some other news for you. That elitist attitude you have is exactly the reason our ancestors left Europe to here in the first place. In plain english, get your head out of your ***.
What about cops, do they have to have a master’s degree too ??
lol
(Sorry about that elitist smirk)
CRC
By the way how ‘s your survey going so far ? I’m too eager to know.
CRC
CRC,
No, police in Ct. do not need Masters Degree. They need Associates Degree in Criminal Law then a year at the police acadamy. A cops job is to keep drug dealer slime like you off the streets. And unlike you most cops support the second amendment.
CRC,
The survey is going well, and as I suspected most of the people are either teachers or college professors. In plain english they have no clue what the REAL WORLD is like.
K5:
I would be interested to know your age, marital status, and where you live, and if you have lived in the same area since your birth.
You sound just as confrontational as someone who posted here for a few months. When push came to shove, he was 26 years old, lived in the very red state of rural Texas, had two children, a wife and never left the county he had been born in. He sold real estate for a living. Now how much more true red can you get than that. I am sure he voted for Bush.
It was interesting to listen to CSPAN and find out that the undereducated voted for Bush this time and the educated and overachievers voted for Kerry. That was a switch. In a nut shell, the undereducated voted against their economic well-being and for their "moral values". We, the democratic party, will have to go into the urban, exurbans and explain our platform. The truly "ignorant" are very close-mind, narrow-minded, do not accept new ideas easily. They are suspicious, even hostile to anyone or anything that supposedly threatens their way of life…which is usually, very low wages, a house that a 30 year mortgage built, their church, their family, their God. And by the way, the christian right don’t send their children to war either…they like to keep them home under Moma’s apron strings…and so the cycle continues.
I don’t know why you are so hostile…your chosen party is in office unfortunately. As stated in earlier posts, with the coming scandals, corruption and the fact that they have no one to blame but their own party this time, they will be tarnished by the year 2006 and 2008. We will just come up with a better plan. Personally, it is scary to me that Falwell and Dodson are already calling the shots…actually, threatening the President about his senate appointments to chairs, the appointments to supreme court, etc…I thought we had a separation of religion and government…Me thinks the Republicans have outsmarted themselves this time…
hello ikorrelim, nice to see you back here! Don’t waste your time with kfowler5. Although he says he’s a cop from CT, a little web search came up with this: His real name is Kevin Fowler, his email is kfowler5@cox.net, he lists himself as a male who lives in NY, and he has a penchant for Stargate TV series as well as Star Trek. I also did a search through the University of CT, and they have no record/listing of a Kevin Fowler attending their university.
As a teacher, I’ve seen many teenage boys with his attitude and television habits. I also have police in my family, and I can tell you that they are not intolerant bigots like kfowler5. If they were, they’d lose their jobs (and cushy pensions) because the police must deal with all kinds of people from all walks of life. They also don’t have time to be watching TV on Saturdays or evenings, as they’re either working, taking care of their families or schmoozing with other policemen.
I’ve just decided to ignore kfowler5. When nobody replies to his ignorant, intolerant, hateful posts, then he’ll go away.
ikorrelim: I agree with you 100% about the Republican Party. The scary part are the judicial appointments, especially to the Supreme Court. I had mentioned to you in a earlier post how Bush would have the opportunity to name US Supreme Court judges if he won a second term. Now it is reality. Let’s just hope that the Democrats have the strength to fight Bush on every appointment he tries to make. But don’t be too worried. I’m a diehard Republican who has NEVER voted anything but Republican, yet in this election I voted John Kerry and I will vote Democrat in the next Pres. election. Bush has turned me off to the Republicans for a LONG LONG time. When people like me turn Democrat, then Bush has a problem because his "base" are leaving him.
When Osama attacks the USA again, and kills many thousands, this time Bush won’t be able to blame Clinton or anybody else. It will be HIS FAULT because he failed to properly go after him. All that Saudi money and Bin Laden family investment money won’t hide the truth, which is that Bush failed to properly go after Osama because his family has invested billions over the past 30 years in the Bush family oil businesses.
On a lighter note, I had wanted to ask you, what is the weather/temperature like in Charleston at the end of April? I have a week off then, and if I don’t go to France, I’m thinking of going to Charleston again. Such a beautiful city and the people are very friendly.
Iko,
lets see I am 35, married to a wonderful Puerto Rican woman, and have an adopted daughter which I adopted from a woman who was forced to have relations with another man.
I was born in Ct., However my father was in the Army and we lived in Alaska, Texas, Germany, Japan, Korea, California, Georgia, and finally back here in Ct.
I served in the U.S. Air Force for 8 years, I was in Germany, Japan, Desert Storm, Maine, Colorado, and finally back here in Ct.
I am not undereducated and for voting against my ecomonic well-being. Lets see Bush lowered the 15% tax bracket to 10%, lowered the 25% tax bracket to 22%, lowered the 35% tax Bracket to 32%, & lowered the 39% tax bracket to 35%.
And as for voting for moral values, here is news for you the U.S. was founded on religion. And the American people will not tolerate same sex marriages or partial-birth abortion. We Americans don’t think it is to much to ask that the same sex partners call their relationships something else besides marriage, like civil unions. We Americans just got sick of you liberals trying to shove it down our throats.
We Americans don’t like change. Please, I own two SUV’S, I have satilite TV, I have Cable Internet, I have a Cell Phone. And believe it or not religious people are not afraid to die or fight for their country. As for my low wages, I am a police officer. But you are right, we don’t like people messing with our religious beliefs.
Oh the Democrats did so much better. Like LBJ with Nam, it took Nixon to get us out of Nam. And Carter who gave us gas lines and Mortgage rates of 22%. And Clinton who had an affair on our time in the Oval Office, at least JFK went to a Hotel.
So I don’t know how you people can vote for someone wants to raise taxes on people & business’s who gross more $200,000 a year. Especally since it is those people and business’s that make the jobs, not government. And I will be ****** if I will let the government use my tax money to give some illegal alien healthcare or a welfare check.
I have news for you the REAL AMERICA has spoken if you don’t like it move to Canada, and you better get used to it because we are not going anywhere.
Also if there is a seperation of Church and State in America like you say, how come EVERYONE who takes public office has to put their right hand on the Bible and swear to uphold the laws and protect the U.S. so help them GOD.
I have the U.S. Constitution right in front of me, and all it says is that the American people shall have the right to practice whatever religion they see fit and that the U.S. Government shall not promote any specific or single religion. Try reading the Constitution it might do you some good.
Lav,
Well you are wrong again I don’t live in NY, I could never live in the same state as a Clinton. And as for Cops not having this Attitude, maybe not in your state. But here in the Northeast all Cops have this attitute, in fact it is encouraged. And as for not being able to find my name in the Records of UConn, thats to bad for you. There is something in this country known as right to privacy, the U.S. Government, State, Town, or Schools can’t post anything about me unless I ok it. And the only ones I allow access to my college records are the U.S. Government and perspective employers. And as for you not replying to my posts, thats great it will make the internet a much more pleasurable place.
YAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWN Same old broken record of hate and anger. Go stick your head up Bush’s butt. You might find his brain there. Yours, too might be located there.
La Vielle Blanche… I want to say, in passing, that your Yawning at these master filibusters from southern Illinois…eh bien? is fine. But, I still prefer the Peugeute907 Concorde XL. With or without that lousy Tranny and the S rated snow chains that don’t exist for those wheel wells, sold by "cooperative, and Non-typical cardealers". I even Prefer the Renault Legane or the Renault Clio (a good "throw away car, too"
. Filibustering by Virginia Senators is Music similar to the Mirele version of the Marseilleise…. and takes just a little longer than speeches from Joe Biden in Wilmington.
I say, Let Donerail Ramble… let Illorkem, talk about his NY roots, and let the forum drift as it might. Maybe to a sunken off shore platform sunk off the northern French coast. The Quality of Cars and Mercy, is only second to any mercies rendered by Donerail, Sal B., Jess Helms, the Honorable Strom, and the eloquent "jackie robinson eulogist." Was la Guillotine really just between the Hotel Aurore and the Gare Lyon? or was it farther from il Bastille?
And, I don’t mean the Nice one in Elizabeth Hanford, California 93230.
K5:
Don’t be so impressed with the Reps. The reason they peeled off some of the African American vote (he did not get 20%, it was lower, and the hispanic vote and some of the women vote (uneducated) was because of the wedge issues abortion and same sex marriage. They were very successful at putting these two hot button issues on the ballot. That is the reason and the only reason that the blacks and hispanics voted for Bush.
Johnson did not start the Vietnam War…It was already on the table when Kennedy went into office…He got stuck with it and it lasted longer than it should and many more names are on the Vietnam Wall because of Nixon because "he didn’t want to be the only American President to lose a war"…
K5:
Well, you will be practicing the politics and choices of Falwell/Dobson for the next four years…They are claiming that they put Bush into the Whitehouse and that they will get the judges, senators/house leaders and even President that they want in the next four years, or else…
The Republican Party has been hijacked by the extreme religious right and now the whole country will have to knuckle under to them and their right wing views if Bush and his puppets let them have their way.
Dobson and Falwell have already said they will not have Arlen Spector as Chair of the Judicial Committee…Who are they to tell the Senate who they will choose for their leaders?
For me, I am for going forward, not going backwards. I will spend Thanksgiving Day with a majority of "religious right wingers", who happen to be my relatives…but, that does not mean that I agree with them. I have had the opportunity to travel and learn more about this country and about the world…My "religious right wing" family have lived in the same rural area all their lives and their beliefs are the same as my ancestors…They never change…God, guns and no gays…Some of them don’t even know any gay people…They just say it is in the Bible that it is wrong, therefore it is. I don’t remember Jesus turning his back on anybody in the Bible…He even befriended a Whore (which I am sure was a radical move in those days)…
You need to quit being so "know it all"…so you are a military brat…that does not mean that you learned anything…and your statement about not living in NY because Clinton lives there tells me a lot about you…Falwell said on CSPAN yesterday that Clinton nor Edwards are suitable to be President…Who is HE to say who is suitable to be president…
I think the Republicans have dug themselves into a whole and they don’t know how to get out…This "moral majority" thing has backfired on them, or it will just as son as they don’t do as the "moral majority" Falwell/Dobson tell them to do…
I do not like religious leaders running this country…and I will continue to fight for a progressive democratic party…
As stated earlier, in four years, the country and the world will be so sick and tired of the scandals/corruption that will be unveiled in this government that they might be lucky if they are are tarred and feathered out of town and back to Crawford and Wyoming where they belong…
K5:
I seen you push your figures and numbers…Bush got 51%…In wartime for an incument President…that is not a mandate…That is something that Rove/Cheney/Bush are trying to get into people’s minds…so they can "move forward"…It is a bunch of crock…They only thing they want to move forward is big business, wall street…They owe their souls to these people…They are caught in their own quadmire…stuck between the "moral majority" and big business and Wall Street…
LaVieille Branche:
I just got through reading all of the posts and came across yours. I would have fought anybody that was against Bush until January, 2004 (remember some of my earlier posts…I almost sounded like K5). Then I had gall bladder surgery and was home for two weeks and watched CSPAN, CNN, FoxNews(the Republican rag), MSNBC, etc. and after getting to know both parties’s platforms, I decided to vote Kerry. You might find this interesting…I had never voted…I was at the poles at 6:00 a.m. and when I left at 7:05 there were 200 people in line. I live in a red state, red district…but most of the people there were as they put it, "trying to get the snake out of office".
Unfortunately, with the wedge issue that the Reps were so successful at getting on the ballot, (gay marriage) that costs us a lot of votes in the hispanic and black community. However, we have learned a huge lesson from this election and if we learn from our mistakes, then we move forward.
The weather in Charleston in the spring…Beautiful…flowers all over the place, shorts, shirtsleeve weather…People with allergies have a time here in spring…from pollen…sometimes in spring we get the spring shower, but otherwise it is beautiful. There are many mansions here to visit, (Boone Hall Plantation is where Gone with the Wind was filmed, Middleton Plantation is known for it’s beautiful and lush gardens,) plus downtown Charleston which they have left the same as in the 1800’s…Fort Sumter is nice to visit, take a boat over…it is very beautiful here…
P.S. Although we have had a ups and downs on this site…it sounds like we have worked out our differences on this site and have met on common ground.
It would be nice to meet you in Charleston…Let’s keep in touch…
danairozo:
your message, quote: "lllorkem talk about his NY roots"….
It is ikorrellim and I am not a he and I am not from New York. I live in what is commonly referred to as the "Deep South"…
If you are going to ramble on about other people on this site, you need to get your facts straight.
And for K5:
You are so full of hate, I feel sorry for you….carrying around all that rage inside of you all the time…
VaVieille Branche:
Thanks for the info on K5…that tell’s this site a lot and should K5 clue K5 into who he is…apparently, he has delusions of grander…Sounds like he thinks he is better than thou…I don’t buy that…sounds to me like he is suffering from a very severe inferiority complex…
LaVieille Branche:
You are right…it is best to ignore K5…you are a genius, finding out all of this information on K5…I bet he is steaming if he has read your posts on his MO…
Bush is going to have to go to the center if he is to try and keep the majority of the American People tending in his direction. My attitude towards him and Cheney has become so radical that I can hardly watch their smug, smirky faces on TV. Unfortunately, he is the President and I do listen ONLY so that I can keep current of what is suppose to be happening.
He and his administration of chickenhawks are very scary indeed. Now they are purging the CIA of all liberals and people who do not agree with their policies. I also heard that the lobbist firms in DC were told by the Republicans NOT to hire anyone (meaning democrats and liberals) that did not agree with their policies. We are slowly going towards the kind of government that Russia was critized for during and after cold war. Bush critized Putnin because he took more control of government after bombing of school…sounds like Bush is doing same thing. This is the most secretative government I have ever encountered. It is very scary…Let’s hope to God that the people wake up during the next two-four years…If not, we will not have a two party system, but a government controlled and owned by Republicans/Corporations/Wall Street…which it is heading that way. I think it is sad that in the first democracy created that the government is actually trying to "tell" women if they should have a child. First of all, I hear a majority of men talking about this (white males)…not women, it is our body, not theirs…Of all of these people worried about gays moving in next door, they should be so lucky. I know a lot of gays in California, LB/LA area…They all have double degrees, are very well dressed, learned, well-travelled, very helpful, friendly, neighborly. The people worrying about having a gay couple next to them should be so lucky…
crc: An Associates Degree means NOTHING in the USA. It’s usually a preliminary to an actual B.A. An Associates Degree means you went to a county college (easy school), spent 2 years studying (half of a B.A.) and they give you an "Associates Degree". Here in the Northeast, you cannot get a job with an Associates Degree, because it isn’t worth anything, when compared to all the B.A., M.A., and PhD. we have here.
But you can be a cop with an "Associates Degree", which should tell you the "usefulness" of it. LOL
LVB : don’t worry, I know how cops are recruited. Once, I presided over a committee that recruits cops here. It was very funny. I don’t want to tell too much about how it works, because it is a secret, but it is very funny. And it works globally : cops are the same just all over the world.
CRC
Lav,
I love how you people can’t handle the truth, and the fact you people have fallen for the same bull for the past 30 years. That the republicans are going to bankrupt Social Security. And lets see from what I remember it was LBJ who by the was a Democrat who raided Social Security to Finance the Vietnam War. And you fall for the same bull that the Dems are going to fix healthcare, well guess what your boys did nothing but made it worse. And as for me sticking my head up Bush’s butt, grow-up. And if you keep talking **** like that I will have no choice but to make your life a living hell legally. And I assure I can do it, Legally that is. So go spew your lies somewhere where they all share your opinion, like on Air America Radio.
Iko,
Sorry, but you are wrong. The numbers don’t lie, and I got these numbers from CBS, ABC, NBC, CNN, & MSNBC. Sorry they all can’t be wrong. And even FOX NEWS had those numbers. So you are calling married women uneducated because they don’t have a college degree, who’s the bigot now? Thats right they were successful about bring same sex marriage & abortion to the fore-front, because believe it or not most of the people in this country care about those issues. You just don’t like the fact that they don’t care about the issues you care about. Remember, we can’t have everything we want in this world and life isn’t fair. You Dems had control of Congress for 50 years and you did nothing with it except raise our taxes, the American people finally got sick of it and said since you Dems are doing nothing lets give the Republicans a chance. And believe it or not most Americans don’t care about the Deficit. First, because the U.S. Governments National Debt is $8,000,000,000 and climbing and that will never be paid off. And also most Americans realize you can’t run a country like a business, if that were the case the U.S. Government would be bankrupt.
Thats is correct Nam was already on the table when LBJ took over. However when LBJ took over there were only 10,000 advisors in Nam and LBJ increased that 500,000 over 6 years, and that is a fact. I got that from the LBJ library. And Nixon resorted to the tactics that he did because the North Vietnamese left the barginning table, so nixon bombed them into submission. Please learn your history, not the liberal **** they tell you in public school.
kfooler: your threats mean nothing to me. But keep it up, the threats, the name-calling, the cursing. You keep showing the entire world how ignorant, hateful and STUPID you are. And don’t forget UNEDUCATED!
It’s that "Associates Degree" in action!!
LOL
P.S. If you don’t like what I say to you here, then LEAVE! This forum has FREEDOM OF SPEECH, something that is in the US Constitution and in the forum rules. If you don’t like it here, then get out! Nobody asked you to come here and NOBODY likes you here. You hate France, you hate everybody who isn’t white American so why are you here anyways?
LOSER
danairozo: my car has 163,000 miles and still going strong. So no need to buy a new one. I did however, test drive one, when I dropped mine off for maintenance and they didn’t have a loaner. Suddenly I had to test drive their new model…Not bad, and the price was only $12,000 with big incentives. However, I’ll keep my nice one until it reaches 200,000. Then I’ll decide what to do with it
Besides, the color is way too cool 
ikorrellim: Jesus not only befriended a prostitute, he worked on the Sabbath, by picking food to eat. He also talked to the Gentiles, which infuriated the Jews.
The thought of people like Jesse Helms, etc. getting to pick our judges is a frightening thought. You’re right on the mark, the USA is turning into Russia, what with it’s repressive laws, nasty police and spying on its citizens. I remember being in Jr. High and High School and learning in history class to be grateful that we were born in the USA, because it meant that we had freedoms that others only dreamed about. This nation has been truely blessed in the past, but now it starting to turn into a repressive society. What will 4 more years of Bush bring? What new laws will he sign into law? More laws that violate the Constitution and our civil rights. Our forefathers would be turning over in their graves if they saw the laws that Bush signed these past 4 years.
I’ve always said that if men could become pregnant, abortion and birth control would be a sacrament and a national right. Telling women when/how/if they may have a child is nothing more than white men trying to have power and control over women. It’s as if your entire body belongs to you, except your uterus. THAT belongs to a man and HE will tell you how it is to be used. That’s as bad as China and it’s forced abortions and sterilizations on women. Always some man trying to tell women how to live their lives.
If all women of the USA stopped doing housework, childcare, sex and their jobs for one week and told MEN to do it, then maybe they’d understand.
ikorrelim: I was in Charleston in the summer of 2000 for 1 week. I had driven over there from Oklahoma (easy one day drive). I had a wonderful time. The people are very friendly, the city is beautiful and the food is delicious! she-crab soup!
mmmmmmmmmmm 
I had visited some of the plantations, and right nearby there was a peach farm. I got a bushel of peaches on my last day and drove them home. They made wonderful peach pies and peach jam 
It was rather hot there as I was there during a heat wave (104 in the shade), but that just gave me an excuse to stay in one night in my hotel and take a nice cool lavender scented bath
btw, I don’t hold anything negative against you because of your past posts. And, yes, you did sound like kfowler in the past, but you were a much more POLITE kfowler…but people change, opinions change, thoughts change. So don’t worry about it
K5:
You are so unhappy, it shows on these posts…Your anger should be directed at another site. Perhaps you should start your own site, maybe title it, Bush and Chickenhawk Lovers Unite…you could even start a 527 and sprew your garbage on TV…
You are unwelcomed on this site. I wish Donerail would come back. He could tell you a thing or two. Please go away, we don’t want you here. We are intelligent, educated people trying to learn and grow from each other, and you are the rotten apple in the barrel.
And as for threats, keep on with your threats…and you will find that people on this site have been kind to you…and the war of words, you definitely will not win…so, chickenhawk, keep talking…and you will be crushed underneath many individual’s learned experiences, education and maturity. And remember, no matter what your Mama told you, "words can hurt you"…
IKO,
First of all if you HATE your family that much you don’t do go visit them.
I am glad you know what I think about Clinton. Tell me this, if religion and values don’t mean anything then how come a single man or woman can’t be elected President? I will tell you why, because the majority of the American people believe that the President/Commander-in-Chief should set an example for the rest of America and the World. Which means most American believe in religion and morals, if they didn’t anyone could be elected President. As for who is falwell to tell us who is suitable to be President? Lets see, he is the founder and Chancellor of a reputable university, and yes he is American citizen who has the right to vote. I say that gives Falwell every right to say who he thinks should be president, its called Freedom of Speech maybe you’ve heard of it.
And the fact that more American agree with him than you liberals proves might point that the majority of U.S. citizens believe in religion and have morals. And if that makes the true majority of the U.S. people fanatics so be it, I suggest you get over it real quick. And if you can’t handle I suggest you move to another country, because I have news for you the we so called religious fanatics as you call us are NOT GOING ANYWHERE.
And as for me being a military brat, I am proud of it. I served my country, just as my father did before me, and his father before him. We shed our blood so you spoiled self-important little babies could have the right to spew your lies about the U.S. and the military. I hope they bring back the draft, then you liberals would be forced to see the kind of people we in the military have to deal with everyday. And I also think bringing back the draft would give all you liberals a big dose of reality, instead of the edited **** on the news.
A progressive Democratic Party, please what you mean is liberal. I can see it now in four years the Democrats will still be saying, if you elect a republican Social Security will go Bankrupt. And guess what that is why you Dems are losing, you Dems have been using the same scare tactics for 30 years. And guess what Social Security is still around, and guess what else the Senior citizens also now a Presciption drug plan that goes into full effect in a year which you Dems could pass. Until you Dems think of a better plan for the future of America instead of the same scare tactics & calling the American people stupid, you will loose. So instead of blaming us republicans and the religious right, I suggest you look at your selves and your party.
What scandals and corruption, there were ten times as many scandals & corruption in the Clinton years. And if Bill went to a Hotel like JFK did instead of doing it in the Oval office on the American people’s time Bill would have left office with some dignity.
And as for President Bush & VP Cheney being tarred and feathered and chased out of D.C. I can PROMISE you that won’t happen. After all remember the Iran/Contra scandal that happened during the Reagan years, And to this day Ronald Reagan is one of the most beloved Presidents.
If you want I can send you some cheese to go with your wine.
IKO,
Its not a Mandate! Bush even got more votes than Ronald Reagan. And it is a Mandate when you don’t have to worry about running for office again, and when your party gained 2 seats in the House and 4 seats in the Senate.
And we should keep big Business & Wall Street mostly happy, after all they are the ones who employ most of the American people the government doesn’t. And believe it or not the majority of the American people own alot of stocks and mutual funds, So if Big Business & Wall Street do well the American people will be happy.
IKO,
Remember now this is Bush’s last term, he doesn’t have to the center on anything.
Lav,
I am here to let you liberal slime know that the real American is watching you. And taking note of your lies.
IKO,
I have news for you I have already won why, because unlike you we talk the talk and walk the walk. The majority of the American think like me. And you know what the difference between us and you is, simple we don’t care what you think of us. And we can honestly say we don’t have to lie to get elected. And we don’t care what the rest of you or the world thinks of us. And as for words hurting, wrong talk is cheap. You don’t judge a person by what they say, you judge them by their actions.
And I don’t think I will crushed underneath your experiences, especally since the majority of the American people think like me and not you.
ikorrellim: It is good to see you back from the political battlegrounds. Your posts, along with crc95 and LVB, have been fantastic in exposing kfowler5 for what he is. I can remember you and I having some pretty good donnybrooks on here. (Although now I can’t remember what we were arguing about. We certainly share the same politics.) At least we were able to converse with clarity. Poor kfowler5 lacks so many basic skills but he is entertaining nonetheless. He sort of reminds me of a Barney Fife or Cadet Nedermeyer. I think he is trying to inject some life into the forums as he can’t be so stupid to actually subscribe to the views that he puts forth. Then again, he could be that stupid. He talks a good game but I bet he is basically a pussy. Its amazing that Karl Rove can inject venom so far north. In any event, it is good to see you back. Donerail
K5
Your quote: "Remember this is Bush’s last term, he doesn’t have to center on anything"…That shows just how ignorant you are…
If he doesn’t center, Republicans will be in a lot of hot water come 2006 elections…and 2008 election…
You are typical of the Bush voters…can’t see the forest for the trees…
Donerail:
Nice to be back. Back in Jan, 2004, I had surgery and was home for two weeks. I decided that if I was going to vote (first time, I’m ashamed to say), I needed to know the issues. I started watching CNN, CSPAN 1 and 2, FoxNews(sometimes…Brit Hume is kinda "fair and balanced"
, MSNBC and really got to know all of the issues on both sides. The downside or upside is that I have become a political junkie…Seems like that is all I want to watch everyday…Also read NYT, LATimes, BostonGlobe, Washington Post everyday.
That is why I know that K5 is full of it and blowin’ smoke. He really doesn’t know the issues of either party and doesn’t want to know. He is narrow-minded, has tunnel vision and obviously thinks that if he uses Viagra he will be a "real American Republican just like Bob Dole…
After four more years of Bush/Cheney/Falwell he and 60M other people will definitely singing a different tune…
P.S. What do you think of Bush’s new Secretary of State? Just what we need in the State Department…a Yes person who really doesn’t have a mind of her own…Also, she gets, according to all the news channels, a C- in handling the last job she had…
For Those Who Are Political Activist:
Go to info@pacactionfund.org and sign the partition to hold Tom DeLay accountable. The republicans are trying to introduce a bill that would let Tom DeLay off the hook. The bill states, "that he will not lose his seat if he is found guilty of criminal conduct in the "Texas fiasco"…
If you recall, he illegally re-districted Texas so that it favored Republicans in this election. The dems lost four seats because of it. He is also caught up in fundraising scandal…
IKO,
It isn’t ignorance, its apathy. Which means we don’t care. All that matters to us republicans right now is the next 4 years. After that everything else will take care of itself.
And as for the trees and forests, I say we cut all the trees down. In fact I just bought a new Humvee with a desiel engine, so I can burn even more fuel and pollute the air even more and really **** off the environmentalists.
ikorrellim: It is so devastating to see how you are dismantling kfouler5. The poor sap. Unfortunately, I don’t think he is absorbing anything. He is probably too busy posing in front of the mirror with his Barney Fife uniform.
kfouler5: Being from Connecticut, you don’t have any trees to begin with. Just plenty of potholes and rust. Your trailer court doesn’t need trees anyway. I see another day has gone by without someone gut shooting you. That 120 pound frame must be too small a target. Its more than enough though to support your pea sized brain. I’ll check the obits again tomorrow. Donerail
Donerail,
That just proves how ignorant you really are, there are plenty of trees in Ct. In fact I home 4 acres in back of my house and it is all woods, which I use for hunting. And on top of that the next town over from me has a National Forest. Before you open your big mouth, think and do a little research. Oh, but I forgot liberals never think they just talk out both sides of their mouth and their ***.
And as for pot holes Ct. repaves it roads every year, that way we always get them same amout of highway money every year from the feds. And as for your ignorant trailer park remark, maybe thats where you live. However I own a 4 bedroom cape which I bought when I was 25 with a dirt cheap interest rate at that.
And as for someone gut shooting me, I don’t think so. First I am to mean to dieremember only the good die young, I plan to live forever. Second no one can get that close to me, I own four police guard dogs, I have a eight foot high fence around my property, & I entensive firearm collection.
kfouler5: Christ, another day without you being gut shot. Tell us more, Rambo!! You are such a pussy. You would need all that security and guard dogs to protect you just from your own family. I can’t imagine just how low your IQ is. I bet your old man wishes he knew more about birth control or your mammy knew more about abortion. Hhahahahahah. Donerail
K5:
Leave my family out of your posts…I will be with about 60 of them on Thanksgiving Day…on a farm in middle red country…Also, stop bragging about what your father did in the service, and what you did…to "protect us"…My Father served, my brother served, my cousins served, my uncles served, and I SERVED…So shut up with that stupid argument…
You missed the posts where I explained that the majority of my relatives have lived in one place all their lives…"called rural America"…I have had the opportunity to move around and in the process grow. My cousins who have had the opportunity that I have had to travel and grow feel the same as I do…we just don’t voice our opinions around our relatives who have never had the opportunity to travel and grow…why cause friction…We have too much respect for them to relate our beliefs to them…
K5:
I can see why you’re on this posts…You have isolated yourself from the world…Almost sounds like Ruby Ridge…The only people you interact with are people on this posts that you have never seen…no wonder you are so filled with hate, suspicion, and mis-information.
That will be your new name: France.com’s Minister of Mis-information. kinda like Bagdad Bob…or Bagdad Bush for that matter…
Donerail,
Actually, my parents live with my wife and I. I take care of them, they are both disabled. Pussy, at least I served in the military when you are living off my tax dollars.
I don’t need all this security to protect me from my own family, I have this stuff to piss off the people on my street. And as for my IQ, it is 180.
And I have news for you both my parents are christian, so they don’t belive in birth control or abortion.
IKO,
You are the one who brought up your family. Don’t bring something up unless you are prepared for someone to respond to it. And I wasn’t bragging about my father I was simply stating the truth, and if that is bragging so be it. I will never shut-up with that so called stupid argument, because it is the truth and it definately is not stupid.
I did not miss the posts where you explained your family lived in rural america and you travelled, I chose not to repond to babble.
Respect my foot, you just don’t want family to think any less of you.
Listen here you pathetic idiot, you brought your family into this I didn’t so get over it.
Germany, so thats why you are so arrogant and think you better than everyone else.
And as I said before you brought your family into this you idiot, don’t dish it out unless you can take it. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!
kfouler: keep up your threats. I’m so "scared!" LOSER!
IKO,
Isolated! The one thing I learned in this world is NEVER TRUST ANYONE, except your family. Mis-imformation, I’m not the one who takes what is said on CNN, or MSNBC as truth. I always check 5 or 6 sources before posting anything.
ikorrelim: don’t even get me started on Tom Delay and that scandal! the first thing the GOP does after winning office is to change the rules to let their criminal friends stay in office. That’s their idea of "morals?"
kfouler is just trying to get you all riled up and upset. This is why he insults your family. When he cannot logically debate an arguement, (which is all the time) he makes threats against the person, thinking he can force them to be quiet. Don’t let him get to you. Just laugh at his ignorance. I do!
To all our European and normal American friends: I got this web site in an email sent to me by somebody I know:
http://www.sorryeverybody.com/
This site speaks for itself. As I said, not all Americans are rednecks.
LaV B:
Thanks for http://www.sorryeverybody...
You are right about K5, not worth the effort to try and "talk" to him.
The way he describes his life, he does sound like a "Ruby Ridge" kinda guy. That would explain all of his posts…
LaV B:
Thanks for http://www.sorryeverybody...
You are right about K5, not worth the effort to try and "talk" to him.
The way he describes his life, he does sound like a "Ruby Ridge" kinda guy. That would explain all of his posts…
Also, I got an e-mail from dailykos.com this morning with a site that will let you see how your representative voted on the DeLay thing. There were about 30 that voted no to the change…I did sign a partition earlier in the week to hold his fee to the fire.
The Political Play of the Week: The Republicans…If you don’t like the rules, change them…
Delay…also, gave Frist the authority to overlook senators with senority for chairmanship positions if he so chooses…in other words, he can pick whomever he pleases…Pretty soon, they might be telling the American people that we can’t move from one place to another unless we get their permission…or worse…
The evangelicals believe that Bush will put a Conservative judge on the Suprime Court, (not because they voted for him), but because that is what he (Bush) believes….that Roe v Wade is wrong and should be overturned. When they find out that his politics is stronger than his religion…watch for an outcry…
kfouler5: I think there was a significant typo in that IQ score of your’s – at least one digit too many. Tell us some more about your family. Its hilarious. Sounds just like the Clampetts.
ikorrellim: kfouler5 is your typical prototype of a failure. He couldn’t make it in the Air Force. He is failing with the keystone cops and he has obviously failed to cope with our education system (as bad as it is). His family sounds like a disaster of trainwreck proportions. Donerail
donerail: in my classrooms I’ve seen many students like kfouler. They hate anybody who isn’t a white WASP, they insult the girls in class, etc. They also tend to get very low grades in school, all the while having their parents support and defend them against the "system". Know what happens to them when they become adults? They become low wage workers, or join the police force, because you don’t need much education and you can carry a gun.
As I said, just ignore the loser. When nobody pays any attention to them, they shut up and go away. Otherwise, they thrive on hate and conflict.
When something bad happens to them, as it will invariably will, NOBODY mourns their bad luck or death, because nobody liked them to begin with.
ikkorelim: You are right. The scandals are starting already, and Bush hasn’t even been sworn in for his second term. The DeLay scandal, and now the Republicans trying to declare filabustering unconstitutional because it might hamper their repressive adjenda. The dirty scandals are beginning. I wonder what else will come up in the next year?
You do know that Bush will bomb Iran. He will find an ‘excuse" as he did with Iraq, and he will invade or bomb Iran sometime these next 4 years. Mark my words. This will happen sometime in the next 4 years. When there aren’t enough American soldiers in the army to do all of Bush’s dirty work, then the draft will be reinstated. But it won’t be called "the draft". They will find another word for it, but the end result will be the same. Remember, Bush cannot run for a third term, so he can do whatever he wants because he isn’t accountable to the American people for anything.
Donerail,
Either way my IQ is better than yours. You have the IQ of cat dander. And as for me nat making it in the Air Force I just refused to serve under a Commander-in-Chief who would rather get a **** job instead of do his job, so I resigned. So at least I can tell my family my polical views, unlike you cowards.
Lav,
I have news for you, ignoring me will not make me go away. It will just make me even more ruthless. And as for my death, not going to happen. Remember only nice people go first, I plan to live forever out of spite.
Donerail : you heard that ? The man called you a coward. Are you gonna let him go away with that ??
CRC
crc: as I said earlier, if you ignore the loser, he will go away after some time. I’ve seen PLENTY of people like him and they’re all the same. I just ignore the toad now.
ikorrelim: Do you happen to have any of those wonderful Charleston recipies? I have a Charleston cookbook that I bought 4 years ago when I was there, but local people always know how to tweak a recipe to make the food taste better. So please, do share! Go into the "culture" section and feel free to leave your best Charleston recipe!
crc95: I will not let kfouler5 get away with that. I will taunt him. Can you imagine, crc95, he left the US Air Force – and let us become more unsafe without his service – because he felt let down by Bubba Clinton? LOL. You’ll have to admit, we get some great entertainment here in the States. Donerail
LVB: Taunting kfouler5 is more entertaining than trading recipes with you and ikorrellim. By the way, have you ever made Les Gallottes? Donerail
kfouler5: How dare you talk to the Son of God that way. Donerail
donerail: he gets off on taunting and fighting. If you really want to piss him off, just IGNORE him. When NOBODY replies to him, it will make him that much angrier 🙂
donerail: Did you notice that the forum admins deleted yours and my abortion comment? They also deleted my descriptio of CT. I’ll have to email you what I said that got deleted.
Yes, I think Donerail needs some help. And, he should get a Pulitzer, too, for his contributions here. I thought I was going to the Love and Hate France room…. oops. Gotta go see La Grandmere, now.
Hey all… I had left a message about a year ago in the ‘France Boycot Redux’ forum (p12-13 i think)… Came accross this site again and decided to read over the discussions and see how they had evolved. Glad to see some familiar faces. Donerail still being his wise and witty self and most surprising of all is ikoremmlin (hope i got your name right)… Iko’s thought processes seem to have made a complete 180 degree turn since last year. Good for you Iko, you dared to educate yourself… If Iko could do it, I think there might be hope for K5 lol…
All the best and take care all…..
Josh
Acadien42: Nice to hear from you again. You shouldn’t stay away for so long. Isn’t kfouler5 a hoot? Numb as a hake and dumber than dirt, but still a hoot all the same. A real, live, goober proving why a good education is so important in this world. He doesn’t have a good education yet, but if he isn’t too dense he may yet get one from here. It is a terrific challenge but ikorrellim, crc95, js, and your’s truly are giving it a shot. Maybe not our best shot, but a shot nonetheless.
Donerail
kfooler…what a big time loser…I didn’t know there were such idiot Americans out there, but then again I live in NJ where tolerance, openness and creativity abound…
Manu Nice,
I am an American and I fully realize what you are saying. I can’t believe the way our people and that fat lard of a president,Bush, criticize the French for not participating in Iraq! I apologize on behalf of my people. I, for one, respect and understand France’s ways. People call the French "cowards" and sissys" and say "If it weren’t for us, in World War 2, there wouldn’t be a France!". THIS IS COMPLETELY OUTRAGEOUS!!!!! THINK!! WE ARE THE ONES WHO ARE SELFISH IN OUR QUEST FOR POWER AND GREED! THE AMERICANS!! If France hadn’t saved our behinds in our Revolutionary War, THERE WOULDN’T BE AN "AMERICA"!!! ~Plus, we wouldnt have the Statue of Liberty. My condolences to the French people for our insolence.
~FrancaisFanatique
Hi, FrancaisFanatique (and all the other paricipants).
Well, that’s quite sympathic to see that we, the French, do not only have oponents in this big country, which we are dreaming and are afraid of at the same time.
But, I think the simple truth in all these mediatic opositions, is that everyone is allways going the most suitable way for him.
Talleyrand, a french politician said more than two centuries ago : "Countries don’t have friends, they only have interests".
Well this remains true even if the world has changed a lot since that time. In a way, we can be sure that US forces have fought in Iraq for American’s interests -or at least for a few Americans’ one-.
France could not go the same way just as his army is allready split around the world (I can personnaly testify it) and engaged in a lot of theatres : in Afghanistan as it has been mentioned, but also still in former Yugoslavia, and in Western Africa. France has its own "Iraq" : Ivory Coast. It would be too costly and too risky for French government to have two major theatres on the same time. Moreover, the possible interests we have there are certainly too weak to aford us to go there and look for it.
Another factor we cannot forget is that there are millions of immigrants in France, most of them being Muslims. France just cannot have a anti-Arabic position. In this case, the Paris underground would experience sad London attacks every day. This would be inacceptable for any government.
To sumerize all these nebulous ideas I would just say that everyone follows his own way, depending on his situation.
Pax : France has its own Iraq, Ivory Coast ?? Now THAT is an interesting idea. Would you care to elaborate, please ? (so that we can eventually make fun of you of course).
CRC
Perhaps he just meant France has a lot of troops committed in the Ivory Coast. It will be interesting to hear his answer (or her answer!).
crc: I think pax’s observations are correct. Concise and well stated. Certainly it added a little life to this Forum. I can sense he or she hit a nerve with you relative to the Ivory Coast. Perhaps you want to articulate your views of French Colonialism? Now that is some history my compatriots should have learned from France – instead of learning, we chose to squander our precious resources by getting bogged down in Iraq. Sadly, it is turning out to be an expensive education. We didn’t learn from your colonial Indo-China experiences either. Well, as TPWIAO might say: "Repetition is the mother of learning." By the way, did your aircraft carrier ever get off that sandbar? Now, lets all cheer on Lance. Donerail
Donerail : to quote Mrs Donerail, you disappoint me sometimes. Anyone who really believes the US’s Iraq is France’s Ivory Coast must be a Fox News watcher with very little knowledge of world matters. The only people I heard who would think that were actual neo-cons Bush-lovers with very little honesty.
France is in IC because and through a UN mandate. It acts only on behalf of the UN, and with strong support from the US, who don’t want to do that dirty job themselves (the French army rescued many US families there). The minute it would lose the UN’s support, France would pull off. Believe you me, French politicians are way too chicken to do anything abroad without the support of the int’l community. Of course, it was France that went in IC because of our knowledge of the country, because of our ties, and because of our military post there. That’s what former colonies do. Same reason the US watches over Philipino politics, Holland keeps an eye on Suriname, and England … well, England.
The neo-cons and Bush-supporters like to contend that we are there because of the chocolate industry. It’s a very easy reasoning for their not-so-refined intellect : France diss the US because they went into IQ for the oil, meanwhile the French do the same in IC for the chocolate. I wanna say : LOL. The cocoa industry is a joke, I’m not even sure France makes the most money out of it (go ask Nestle or Cadbury or General Food), and for each and every ton of cocoa seeds that reach the coasts of France, we get like 10 illegal aliens from IC. Yeah nice deal.
And what’s wrong with our A-400 M again ???
CRC
Well I’ll try to answer everyone and explain what I wrote yesterday, just to be sure that I won’t be misunderstood.
First of all I’ll introduce myself and apologize for not having done it before. I’m a man (as there has been a doubt about it) and I work in the French Army. I’ve spent two months in Ivory Coast, doing my job and executing missions.
Ivory Coast has changed a lot since my childhood when I first visited that country. When I arrived there I could not really reconize it. So many things had changed : poverty had invaded that rich country, there was a climate of tension and social instability. I must add that I’ve personnaly no economic interests in that country and that the only thing I got when I first came there was friends and penmates.
I wrote that Ivory Coast was France’s Iraq because despite the famous UN-mandate that allow us to stay in Ivory Coast, the situations may be similar -though they have not the same intensity-. We are stuck there just to maintain a kind of peace and just avoiding civilian war. French Army can’t afford leaving the country without risking a major conflict in the area, which could extend to countries around Ivory Coast and then to the whole region like in Eastern Africa in the 90’s.
So that’s why French interests in Ivory Coast’s crisis are not limited to chocolate and national ressources. The integrity of the whole Western Africa is then threatened. France has a traditional support from those countries : a political one amoung the International Community. That had been illustrated during the US-France debate over Iraq, when almost all the African Countries supported the French side.
In case we would disengage our troops from Ivory Coast, well that would mean the end of our international weight and influence.
I’m sorry if I unintentionaly upset someone with what I’m writing here but I thing it’s one reality we have to know if we want to speak about Ivory Coast. Indeed, there are plenty other realities and I would personnaly appreciate the others’ ones.
To end that long and indigest text, I would say that I’m looking forward to pilot myself the future A-400M.
Please forgive me for my possible (and certain) mistakes as I just studied English at school. Nothing compares with your perfect English.
P.S. : CRC you are perfectly right about Ivory Coast. Many foreigner families (American amoung them) have been evacuated by French Army. That was our job and political opposition has nothing to do with saving lives, so we did it.
Pax : I agree with you for the most part. Just don’t write stuff like "US + IQ = FR + IC" because this is too strong a statement and as I pointed out, the neo-cons just love those nasty shortcuts.
Keep in mind that the US went into Iraq for the oil, they illegally overthrew a govt. by a nonetheless illegal act of war and agression that killed many innocent civilians. Let’s not forget the second part, the funniest trickiest one : how Chimp-in-Chief lied to his fellow citizens and to the whole world by giving them phony motives and how that was SO obvious at the time. Personally, I don’t think the US are there to restore peace and govt., I think the US’ primary goal is to secure future oil production in the hands of US conglomerates. Now the US army is stuck into the muddiest quagmire, and is planning a nice cut & run, but that’s their own loss.
As for our influence in Africa : ok, I agree with you on that too, except that personally, I would like someone to explain to me what we really gain from it. Africa today, sad as it may be, is more than irrelevant for the most part, and as you described, only seems to be getting worse every day.
I live and work in French Guiana, a place you probably know if you were in the military. To my humble opinion, FG is expensive to the French taxpayer, useless and rather worthless. We could easily get the hell out and just pay a lease for Kourou. But, we’re keeping the place, because it’s of high strategic interest. Besides, it puts France on the map in South America, which luckily and incidently pisses off the US. Just like the day the A-400 M takes off.
CRC
As an American, I believe in principal with with She stanbs for. Because we do have the freedoms of the constiton. I was taught in school that that that the constition is elastis, that means that that that the same constition that did support slavery now has a civil rights admentent. Unfortuntantly the president appoints a justice it must go to the Senatate. Then He /she is ratafied. The mood of this country is grestly divived,withthe conservativss , they are slightly the majority. I don’t knoe the percentage is,but eightly some percernt americas presance. I do love France, but I’m America first,right or wrong. The does’t mean that I don’t exercise my legal right to fight against things that still must be changed.
My spelling was horrible sorry
pug2: You are correct, your spelling was horrible. Your grammar was horrible as well and it may mask the fact that your thought process seems to be incoherent.
crc: You give us Yanks too much credit. I would guess that 99.99% of us have no clue (nor care) where French Guyanna is – or what an A-400M is. Personally, until you enlightened me, I thought FG was in Africa somewhere. I am familiar with the A-400M. Why LaFrance and her EU partners are investing so much money in old technology is facinating. A prop jet of all things and with 8 blades made of composites. I hope they hand out good parachutes. Maybe you will come to the good ole USA for C-17s when you want an upgrade. Go Lance!!! Donerail
As far as the A400M is concerned, I think I can answer you, Donerail.
This aircraft was sized for European needs, which are much more reduced than the American ones. A compleete fleet of C-17s, though it would constitute an excellent logistical force, would be too expensive for our budgets and wouldn’t be adapted to the use we request from our carriers.
We have now tactical aircrafts that are able to land on short runways made of sand. I know it perfectly well because it’s my job and I can ensure you that no other heavy aircraft could operate from the airfields I’ve practiced in Ivory Coast.
Unfortunatly these aircrafts are now old and undersized. They need to be changed for newer airplanes, which may carry more weight. The A400M is that type of aircraft.
Don’t think a propeller aircraft is old-fashioned, it’s just another technology that is also very reliable and efficient, adapted for another use. The A400M will be able to fly at Mach 0.7, which is much more than what you can expect from old C-130s and C-160s.
Moreover, the avionics will be very modern, so this aircraft won’t be an old one.
By writing that, I don’t want to sell A400Ms to the US Air Force, but just to convince you that they will be sized for our needs. Other aircrafts have been proposed for the French Air Force, such as a few C17s completed with C130Js or modified Russian Antonov 72s. The result was that the best would be home-made A400Ms !
Donerail : you work with planes too don’t you ?? Then maybe it’s thanks to people like you that Airbus is nowadays more successful than Boeing.
And by the way, every american I know including you knows really nothing about geography. And yet you people want to make intercontinental planes, and wage intercontinental wars. No wonder it’s bound to failure. I was saying it pisses off the US because the CIA dubs FG " the only non-independent portion of the South American continent ". Lol . You can just hear their teeth grinding, can’t you ?
Well I can.
http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/fg.html
CRC
crc: The heat and humidity down there in the FG must be getting to you. I sense hostility and jealousy instead of your usual reserved humor. In any event you are exaggerating when it comes to Americans and geography. Only about 50% or 60% of my compatriots know nothing about geography. Although you disagree with me, I would not place myself in that category. I know where to go for good food, wine, service, and culture. I am embarrassed, though, that I did not know where FG was. I did know it was some gawdawful hot and humid place ? I just assumed it was in Africa. And yes, we Americans are good at making intercontinental planes and waging intercontinental wars. And it?s has been a good thing for you that we are so adept at it. And yes, Airbus has been quite successful ? thanks in large measure to the subsidies given to it by the French taxpayers. No doubt about it, Airbus makes some good stuff to compete with Boeing. crc, I was stunned to see that you read and believe what our CIA puts out. You are about the only one I know that does!! In any event, you can learn some more by reading my post to pax below. No lets hear you cheer on Lance Armstrong. Bon soir.
pax: I am sure that the A-400M will be a good plane. I was just questioning the design wisdom of a 4 engine prop jet. I can understand a one or two engine prop jet for those real small airfields ? only because low cost one or two engine turbofans have not yet made their appearance -yet. If you look around, you won?t find any 4 engine turbo prop passenger airliners or freight cargo planes around. The reason is an economic fact or life: a turbo prop does not have the lift, reliability, or maintainability of a turbo fan. The plane also has one of those items that is a nightmare for aircraft engine applications: the propeller gear box. In this case four of them on a propeller system that is still in the development stage. Good luck on that one. All sorts of parts and dynamic/kinetic energy forces at work. Not good. The A-400M is a politically constructed aircraft ? and that is a reality that I understand. When the Airbus consortia is finished with it, you will have an aircraft that can definitely compete with our 40 year old C-130. You will have the political and economic participation of EU with Rolls, Tusas, Dowty, Snecma, etc. but the plane will be a huge tecnnological compromise. And anything involving Rolls-Royce will be rather pricey. And thats all ok. We have to remember that it is only a cargo plane. Similarly, when you are done with the EuroFighter, you will have a plane that can compete with our 30 year old F-15. The US Joint Strike Fighter will be the standard bearer by then. And thats ok too, as it demonstrates a tendency of the EU folks to provide for its own defense instead of relying on the USA to do it for them ? and having to put up with all of our other shortcomings. A couple examples of the latter is our foray into Iraq and our willingness to pound billions down the rat hole developing the F-22 fighter. All these platforms are the result of some degree of compromise on economics, politics, and technology. Peace, Donerail
Donerail : did I strike a nerve or something ? I sense some aggressiveness in your last post
My humour is alive and well, thankyouverymuch, don’t feel it’s very ‘reserved’ though.
And yes, I shamelessly check the CIA’s factbooks sometimes, it is a very valuable source of int’l info, and updated regularly. You should give it a try, after all the US taxpayer is paying for this, just as it paid for those weird contracts the Pentagon had with Boeing, you know, the ones your Senate launched a few inquiries about.
Relax D’rail, have a glass of Nuits-Saint-Georges, after all I’m a big fan of Lance too, I just love his most famous tune "What A Wonderful World".
CRC
a cool smile hopefully will loosen y’all up. You are all TOO serious lately!!
Ok, Donerail, you are right when you say the A400M is a political airplane : It is the only and last chance for EU to have company which makes modern military transport aircrafts besides the US. And yet the A400M is not the worst example of compromise : as you mentioned the Eurofighter, you may know that France will not have thoses aircrafts. We have our own Rafale, which is certainly the last pure french fighter aircaft, after the Mirage 2000. But do we really need expensive top of art aircrafts ? It’s hard to imagine that one day we will have to face F22s for real.
Anyway, a fleet of C17s would be too costly for us. We can’t afford to buy it as our budget is too reduced. Surely the A400M won’t be the best aircraft -as it’s only designed on compromises- but let’s say it’s not the worst. It’s the only to have a single aircraft designed for our needs : air-air refueling and refueler, logistical and tactical transport, paradropping, self-protection. No other aircraft could do this for an acceptable price.
Well I’d like to write a few words about the other subject in matter. Should the French know better geography than the average American, for which I prefer to rely on your experience as I sadly only know a few, those French only know few things about Geography.
They surely know where is a given country, but few of them really have a precise idea of the political and human factors that caracterise this country. In the end, I think that the notion of geography is linked to historical, cultural matters. And let’s bet that neither the American nor the French do really know many things about it appart from specialists from each country.
As an example I’m quite sure that many of the French think that Hungary or Romania, as part of the former Eastern countries, are slavs. In fact, it would represent the same mistake as considering Italians and Germans the same way, with the same religion and similar langages.
So it would be an error to considerate that we, the French, are superior thanks to our knowledge of the world. We had better admitting that we are like all the others.
To be fair most Americans want out of Iraq. In fact, most of the people are against the president’s policys. Unfortratly we don’t have a paliment where we can call elections. I believe alot of the anger between our two countriesis that the US is a little older than two hundred yearts where as France goes back over a thousand years. There is resentment in France that an upstart would be the most powerful nation in the would, and refuses to listen to age old experiece.
pax: Any discussion of public education will hit a lot of nerves in the USA. Our public education system has to be one of the worst in the Western World. I remember reading a survey a while back where a sample of USA high school and college students were asked to find the USA on a world map. Less than half were able to do so. And that is just simple geography. You can imagine the responses to cultural questions. I don’t know much of the European education system but from what little I do know I think it is probably superior. Donerail
Donerail, I only have to believe you for what is concerning your country. It’s a fact that a lot of people in France have their own opinion about the USA, and unfortunatly it’s often a bad one.
Well, I admit I’ve never been in the US but every American I’ve known left me a good impression. Some were pretty much cultured than me or my friends. In that way I don’t want to be biased by what I can see on French TV about America, which I believe to be subjective. That’s why I prefer to speak -or write- directly to people, and why not travell there. I just want to have my own judgment about what I see, read or hear and not about what is being reported to me.
I think in most of the cases, the famous US-France dislike is much a misunderstanding than a real aversion. People don’t like because they don’t know eachother.
I’ve red a book which I think is very interesting both for the French and for North-Americans. You probably already know it : it’s called "Sixty Million Frenchmen Can’t Be Wrong". This book isn’t an apology of France and French, it only explains WHAT they are and why.
It’s very interesting for foreigners who are taught with their own references and concepts how works France and what are its values. It’s also intersting for the French as me who can therefor realize how we are seen abroad, and what is so original for the foreigners, which we cannot think about just because we are used to it.
I’d appreciate such a book would exist to explain so well the United States for the French !
pax: I’ll have to find that book. I agree with your view of the France/US situation. In general, I find that people with an education do not stereotype or express dislike for an entire nation. I think the people in the US that express a dislike for France are an ignorant lot. But if its one thing that the US has – it is variety. I am just so disappointed that this variety of people managed to elect a idiot to be its President. You should visit the US. Our main attractions are creativity, music, conspicuous consumption, wild and open countrysides, lots of wood, and a fairly high degree of freedom. And a weak dollar compared to the Euro. And, of course, Harley Davidsons. Donerail
I agree with the creativity, the music, the consumption, the countryside and the freedom. I’ll add something more : FOOD. Mmmmmm, can’t wait to lay hands on BBQ ribs again. I’m getting tired of the watermelon and bananas.
CRC
If you’re interested by that book, Donerail, I’ll give you further information :
"Sixty Million Frenchmen can’t be wrong" is written by two canadian journalists : Jean-Benoît Nadeau and Julie Barlow. It’s published by Robson Book (I’ve bought this book in the UK so it’s highly possible it may be published by another company in the US).
It’s a bit complicated and sometimes technical, as it deeply analyzes the french political system with its rules. Anyway it exposes a clear and objecive explanation of many affairs that are not stated that way in France.
If you happen to read it, please tell me what you think of it. I would enjoy having another point of view than my own one.
crc: You are sooooo right….the BBQ ribs are da best! If you’re ever in Oklahoma, I know where you can get some excellent BBQ…
America doesn’t have much to offer in the ways of good cuisine, but BBQ ribs are the exception
LVB: Why in gawd’s name would anyone want to go to Oklahoma? Herbert’s BBQ in Tennessee is hard to beat. You can spend the night eating BBQ pork/ribs and Bud draft for $12 – or about 8 Euros except I would imagine the folks down there have never seen a Euro.
CRC: Try mixing some vodka with the watermelons and bananas. BTW, it is fun following the Tour de France. Today Lance goes thru the area of the Pyrenees that Mrs Donerail and visited last April.
PAX: Thanks for that info. I will find that book. I just finished one that may be similar. "Savoire Flair" by Polly Platt. It was published about 5 years ago and is really quite informative and humorous.
Donerail
Donerail : I hate the Tour and I always will. It’s a childhood thing. About Pax’s book, it’s available through Amazon.com. I’ll think about the fruits & vodka, but they rather do fruits & rum here, and they love nothing & rum.
CRC
crc, . . . no, I don’t drink this early in the day. I just reported it. Hopefully, it will be removed. Obviously a teenager who couldn’t get a job at Mickey D’s this summer.
Then maybe it’s some of LVB’s friends, the ones who had troubles logging in. Looks like they made it after all.
CRC
nope, I don’t have any illiterate friends. Must be some teenager with nothing better to do..
Anyway, whoever that may be, SalB reported him, which means that he was probably thrown in Git’mo, wearing a bright orange jumpsuit and taking his morning dump on a very rare edition of "Koran in braille".
CRC
Thor-axe. I agree totally. Donerail
Donerail : it all makes sense now.
CRC
crc: I just made another friend with Thor-axe. And TPWIAO just got him or her banished. This is stressfull. Donerail
Donerail, don’t be stressed. You’re doing a good job. This website has had a lot of integrity and I have enjoyed it.
in·teg·ri·ty n. 1. Steadfast adherence to a strict moral or ethical code. 2. The state of being unimpaired; soundness. 3. The quality or condition of being whole or undivided; completeness.
lafayette21
LOOK AT THE 2ND DEFINITION!!!!!Â
french is so cool. i absolutly love it!! i cant wait 2 do the languge next year its gonna be great. thous of u who never tied it u should try its really easy and its lots of fun!! i think the culture is really great and everyting about it.
hi every one my name is mary french is so awesome u should try it someday