French Women Don't Get Fat…

Hey,

Haven’t read it but have seen how the French eat. Its slightly different to the Americans (and the Brits). For instance, its not uncommon for a lot of french people to spend up to a third of their salary on food. Good quality food is very important in France (and Italy, Spain and Portugal).

Unfortunately, I think food is seen as a means to an end by many in the UK and the States. In France, it is seen as an experience. 1 in 3 children in the UK are now obese. I’m not sure what these statistics are in France, but I suspect its lower perhaps to the cultural importance food has over there. There has been a huge revolt against the MacDonalds march into France, particularly by parents. And rightly so in my opinion.

I think another difference is the attention to detail with food in France, as opposed to huge portions – which would be seen as vulgar.

Whats your favourite? Creme brulé is just soooo yummy!

It’s a great title if you want to sell a book. There aren’t the number of large people in France that there are here, but there definitely are "fat" French women. I have a lot of them in my photos to prove it.

I was quite surprised the first time we visited France. I honestly expected everyone to be thin. It just isn’t so. They tend to get portly as they age, just as everyone else does. There aren’t so many younger heavy people and I’m not sure I’ve seen any French people quite as large as many Americans I see every day, especially in California! The French seem to head toward overweight rather than obese . . . a fine line but one good for their national health.

There was a recent article in the NY Times about the obesity problems in Europe. Eating too much and exercising too little are rampant. I think it’s worse in the US because we don’t have public transportation so we take our cars from door to door. At least most Europeans have to walk to the bus, Metro or train station! They don’t have nearly the number of elevators we have either. That is a help for them.

The size of food portions is a factor also and European portions have gradually been getting larger. We’ve even noticed the difference over the years. I used to get a perfect amount of food on my plate in French restaurants. Now, I often can’t finish my meal over there. I’m not sure why anyone thinks bigger is better but the attitude seems ubiquitous.

I invariably eat more and lose weight when we visit Europe and it is simply that we walk more. Perhaps the high gas prices we are having right now will help all of us to better health!

Petite Anglais: The French are very fashion conscious. Whether they eat less, exercise more, or just eat better foods or all of the above – it all fits into their consciousness about fashion. My trips to LaFrance revealed – on a relative scale – very few fat people. Another observation, a glass or two of wine while out on the town is certainly a lot more calorie friendly than a few Budweisers. BTW, Creme brule rules. Donerail

SalB – I’m a "European" and live in the UK. As I am sure you are aware (but perhaps the journal in NY is not) trends, lifestyles, everything – varies significantly throughout the different countries of Europe. To generalise that Europeans are exercising too little and putting on the pounds as a result is a sweeping generalisation.

As I mentioned, from my trips to France (I used to work with Air France and spent a huge amount of time there) I can say without doubt that French eating habits puts those of the majority of Brits to shame. Hence the disparity over a relatively short distance of water to give you an idea of how different "Europeans" are (used in italics as the French are still French and the Brits still Brits (or Scottish, Welsh – lol)) despite what the EEC would aspire to.

Another point – public transport. In the UK public transport is dreadful. Trains are often late, sometimes unsafe (as well as the track) and quite honestly, an embaressment compared to those in France/Germany. You may have heard about some tragic consequences within the UK which have been blaimed on safety – and a policy (advocated by the Conservative Government in the early ’90s, dear old Mrs Thatcher) to privatise the system v injecting badly needed public funds. So walking to the train station is often not a luxury many people have – the notable exception being London. Hence no, public transportation varies widely in Europe I’m afraid.

With regard to portion size in France РI have not seen this. My question would be Рwhere are you eating? Cuisine in France is very conservative. Standard recettes do not vary. To increase the size of portions in a respectable restaurant would be an affront Рspeaking from experience. My partner would echo these sentiments as a Portuguese/French Sous Chef. He scorns any deviations from this sacred art in England (ie Creme Brul̩ with lemon grass proposed recently in a UK Hotel he once worked in).

However, I would agree portions tend to be getting bigger in CHAINED food restaurants IN ENGLAND, ie buy one get one free pizza, hamburger….hmmmm. Wonder why this is happening…..

Donerail – another generalisation. Sorry love, but it sounds like your trips to France have stuck to Paris in the past? Generally fashion conscious. Have you been to the suberbs? Urban "fashion" is very rife there v the latest GPG. Not everyone has the money – or wants to pay the money. If you’ve moved into rural areas you won’t see much fashion round there honey! (lol) Bit difficult with the heels when you are feeding the ducks – and there a fair few that still do thanks to less labour intensive farming , protected by a very militant people. Might be interesting if you go down there to ask them about their take on fashion – or even Parisian people for that matter, lol lol lol.

I’ll try and get a photo of some of my french friends, esp my partner, so you can see how fashion conscious they are!

Bisoux x x

Petite Anglaise: Good observations. About half my travel to La France has been to Paris. Of course my answer was a generalization. Otherwise my post would take on the size of a Master’s thesis. I do believe that the answer as to why French women are not fat is due to the quality of their food, their portions, and their resolve. I have seen very nice fashion in the rural areas of France. Just check out their light posts on the streets. Donerail

Light post? What is this? Do you mean shop windows? The rural areas I was referring to are not small towns. I was drawing on areas such as Suisse-Normandy and in the thick of the countryside. Fashion is not priority here.

Liberté, the freedom to dress how I please versus how the dictates of fashion would… 😉 One common denominator is the pullover worn over the shoulders with a shirt underneath for the boys…great idea if you don’t want the shirt sleaves trailing behind you, as is the case if they are worn round the waist.

Oh and I think a master thesis is a far better way to communicate if possible, avoiding the need to put people into boxes and standard clichés. France is a wide and varied country with many cheeses, all with their own distinct flavour and taste.

Bon weekend.

xx

Has anyone tried Cassis & white wine btw?

cassis and white wine?

My favorite subject – KIRS!!!!

Petite Anglaise: The French are so sophisticated with their cheeses!! Not only are there so many, but there is also a sequence with which one should eat them. I guess I’ll have to work on detecting the difference between flavor and taste… Donerail

Love the conversation!

I have been following the French Women Don’t Get Fat diet, and it was working up until I went to the Bahamas for a funeral and gorged myself on desserts!

Speaking of French cheese… they are all fabulous, but nothing beats walking down the streets of Paris with a mini baguette filled with Brie!!! Fabulous!

holmgirl5: Don’t forget the occasional pannini. Donerail

Try Kir Royal – mix Cassis with Champagne (not expensive though as Kir is often used to disguise bad wine, doh!)

Also, I’m interested…what is the difference between flavour and taste? Hmmmm

I gave that recipe a week or so ago and crc95 who seems to have changed his number had an absolute fit. I wish you luck . . . or perhaps he just wanted to fight with me.

Hey SalB,

Then hes a naughty boy and I’ll tell him if he thinks hes hard enough to have a go at me (bring it on). Thats exactly what I say to the Latin boy who lives with me if he has a tantrum about a sudden urge for fish and chips.

Saying that, whats all this about you cowboys/girls sticking caviar and fois gras into burgers in an effort to upgrade it on the cuisine stakes? This is a joke right?

xx

I haven’t heard of that one but nothing surprises me in this country. We don’t eat burgers so it’s not on my list of interests. About 30 years ago I had a burger with bleu cheese on it and it seemed a waste of good cheese.

crc’s complaint was that (a) it is a waste to mix something with champagne and (b) it isn’t champagne if it’s not FROM Champagne. I revised it to sparkling wine but he didn’t seem mollified in the least.

I like kirs and although we don’t have them often, we have the occasionally and always several times when we’re in France. They seem to taste better there . . . perhaps it’s the scenery.

SalB : about Kir and Champagne : I’m not going to get started again on this. Read LVB’s last post about the topic, I found it was pretty good and skilled. Besides, I think it’s better if y’all stubborn ignorant anglo-saxon barbarians get to be enlightened by one of your peers.

CRC

I tend to agree more with Monsieur SalB on this one. Yes, Donerail, I saw so many beautiful mostly black haired French ladies in Paris…but then there were the Blonde ones who spoke French with rolling R’s. Wowie. Then there were the Grande Dames in Notre Dame church just prior to Mass on that Sunday Evening. There were a couple more stocky ladies with white hair (not even with the tinge of Blue you see in American older ladies’ hair). One bigger stocky lady about 5′ 7 with her greenish dress seemed to Say Bonjour or Bonsoir to everyone there…even to me. I think she had been in the War. The War that Veterans at my morning in California McDonalds table describe as the War where the French ran like crazy to the Vichy or Marseille area. The war where Charles deGaulle was a resistance General and a fellow who snookered Fort Knox out of $34 Gold in 1968.
…..I don’t know if that grande Dame in Notre Dame was one of the ladies who had her Head shaved after WWII, (the one that was WON as opposed to Korea or Vietnam or the Bay of Pigs). But, I tend to doubt it.

I see crc# doesn’t have the courage to argue with Petite Anglaise so is aiming his remarks at me. Quite frankly, I don’t give a hoot what he thinks. I enjoy a kir and the occasional kir royale and I will continue to enjoy them. Champagne is okay but I wouldn’t go out of my way to drink it so adulterating it doesn’t offend my sense of aesthetics. If he wants to be a kir snob, he’s most welcome. I shall continue to enjoy mine.

Hello all,

I’m back from France. It was a short trip, only one week. However, that is all the vacation time I have this year.

Prices are getting very very high in France, and I’m comparing last year to this year in EUROS, not taking the lowered dollar into consideration. When the dollar is factored in, the price really jumps.
However, I did do some shopping in France, and I brought back some pretty things, made in France (I always check the label).

Never forget to go to the Maille Mustard boutique to stock up on your favorite mustards.

This time I went to the hammam at the Paris Mosque. It’s a Turkish bath with certain days for women and certain days for men. Imagine about 100 naked women scrubbing, washing and laying about in the hot rooms, under the marble water fountains, by the sauna pool, and you get the idea. I opted for a "gommage" (body scrub) and massage after the bathing was finished. The nice Arab lady scrubbed down every inch of my skin with a hard glove. It removed all dead skin, scar tissue, moles, etc. The massage was done with eucalyptus scented almand oil over every part of my body. It takes one full day to fully appreciate the baths. I recommend it for everybody, as long as you dont mind the nudity. You can bring a bikini bathing suit with you for modesty, which is what some French women did. But most French ladies were just there in the nude, some with a maillot bottom, some without.

The price is 15 euros for an all day simple bath entrance, which includes usage of all facilities. 38 euros gets you entrance, black soap, a gommage, a 10 minute massage and hot mint tea. Many French women bring their own bath products there and use them to enhance the experience.

After the bath, I got dressed and decided to stay at the Mosque for dinner. They have a wonderful cafe/restaurant on the premises. I ordered several different Moroccan specialties (I love Moroccan food) and had a nice meal. The couscous legumes was wonderful and the couscous grains where of the highest quality.

I visited the souk and got myself some mint tea glasses painted in gold and a teapot to go along with it. They have other glassware from Morocco and Algeria, however, I could only fit a certain amount of fragile things into my bags on this trip.

If you are American and/or Christian, you have nothing to worry about at the Mosque. Real Islam is not racist or discriminatory. Stay away from the hammams at northern Paris. Those are operated by fundamentalists, and if you’re not Islamic, then you won’t want to go there. But this main mosque is open to all. If anybody is interested, I will post the Mosque web site here.

As for the topic, "French women don’t get fat," I can personally attest to the fact that the French women are NOT FAT (obese). I saw hundreds of them naked in the baths. However, they’re not fashion model skinny either. They have cellulite on their upper thighs where the saddlebags would be, they have hips, and they have small/medium tummies. I think American ideas of fat/thin are greatly influenced by the media, fashion and entertainment industry where where being rail thin like a skeleton is held up to the highest ideal. Anything other than that is considered less than perfect and in need of improvement.

The French eat more meat, buter and carbs then Americans however, they’re not obese at all. They’re just not rail thin. You can see they are normal shaped, with normal amounts of body fat from a culture that loves it’s carbs, proteins and fats. However, the quality of their food is excellent. You won’t find hormones or antibiodics in their animals. Genetic modification is shunned. The food in America has been so overprocessed, manufactured, modified and adulterated that it’s no wonder Americans are obese. The French eat real, natural food and the Americans eat synthetic equivalents. The body reacts accordingly.

About the kirs: I always began dinner at night in France with a kir. Kirs are a varied aperitif. In one resto I frequent, they use simple white wine mixed with your choice of either peach, blackberry, cassis or raspberry liqueur. If you want mousseux, the price is higher. Most cafes/bars/brasseries use a simple white wine and various liqueurs. Some places I know of use a mousseux and cassis only. In Reims, (where I was last Sunday at a family dinner), they used CHAMPAGNE and blackberry (I had brought them blackberry and blueberry from Pennsylvania) and it was delicious. As you can see, kirs are a varied aperitif. So let’s not fight about it.

Let’s just drink them and enjoy

As for customs, I had no problem at Newark airport at all. In fact, I did the dumbest thing! They asked me if I had brought any food into the USA, and I replied that I had brought in some tea and jam from Paris (which is true). However, I had a HUGE bag of croissants from a Paris boulangerie in my hand!! The customs agent looked at me and the bag, snickered and told me to "go, get out of here!" with a laugh in his voice. He saw (and smelled) the croissants and let me through with no problem. I thought that was hilarious. Other people are grilled when re-entering and I’m passed through with food

If I’d known that, I’d have brought back some nice smoked meat from the Jura and some delicious cheese, too!

crc . . . anglo saxon barbarians. Give me a break. We’re less than half the population of the US right now, and many of those are neither anglo nor saxon.

Crc97320: I’m sorry, so sorry. I remember that I’ve put Cassis in the Champagne you’ve offered to us. Are you still my friend???

SalB/Petite Anglaise: I don’t like very much Champagne and when I have to drink Champagne ( birthday, Christmas, New year, etc… or when it’s a present like past week with Crc) I use to do a Kir Royal, as LVB.
About Crc, he is not a naughty boy, I met him past week and he is very well educated: he even didn’t seem bothered with the fact I made a Kir with his Champagne. It seems, reading SalB’s post, that he has hidden his feelings.
Now, I’ve to say that in France, as you know, every one is very proud of the specialities of his region. If you say " good Cognac " when I offer you an Armagnac, I’ll feel it as an offence. Crc97320 is right when he says there’s no Champagne produced out of the Champagne – France. If california want to produce white wine ‘pétillant’, they can name it as they want, but not Champagne.
As Petite Anglaise ( à nous les … ) said, food is really important to us, and every french I know is proud to show what he knows to do in a kitchen.
I’ll educate my son in that way, watching very close to his weight, teaching the taste and the flavours, being curious of tasting every thing, but never forgetting the bases of our "culture culinaire".
And isn’t a man who cook for you, ladies, a very charming boy ;-)???

Petite Anglaise: are you english, scottish, Irish ( I don’t think so ) or from wales? Just curious…

Montjoly : I’m not saying you can’t mix Champagne with cassis. I’m not even pretending it would taste bad. All I’m saying is : it is NOT KIR !! Which was the original beginning of this silly debate. Once in an hotel in Asia I saw some Americans pour orange juice into their Champagne … what is that, a Kir Orange ?? Noooooo.

Americans are used to mix all kinds of weird sh.., that’s how you may get vanilla Pepsi or Cherry Coke for instance. Cherry Coke is my favorite soft drink when I’m there, but it is NOT Coca-Cola.

And so, in order to close this debate :

http://bourgogne.75cl.com/kir_bourguignon.htm
http://www.kir-royal.com/pages/histoire/texte.htm
http://www.saveurs.sympatico.ca/ency_4/cassis/kir.htm

Thank you.

CRC

crc97320: Orange juice and Champagne, I’ve seen that yet with arab people who cannot drinck alcohol in public, so they disguise their drink.
But I’ve seen worst: In a five stars hotel in Rio de Janeiro, there was a really big "Buffet" for breakfast, with every thing you can imagine; there was also a cooker preparing eggs in front of you, with a lot of ingredients. I was waiting after an american woman, she ordered eggs cooked with ham, onions, garlic, salt and pepper, some potatoes cubes, a kind of spanish "tortilla", but better. Miam, when it has been ready, it was smelling so good… I looked at this american woman with a lot of respect for the mariage of the ingredients she had made, but before going back to her table, she gave a look around her, she saw liquid toffee wich was there for the "gauffres", and she napped her eggs with it… Buark. She has lost my respect. I’ve been disgusted

Ceci dit, je ne suis entré dans le débat que parce la petite anglaise ( à nous les… ou bien pour faire local: a sa nou lé! ) t’appelle naughty boy, sans que je sache bien pourquoi.

About the subject of this forum, "french women don’t get fat", I don’t know how to say that " l’impression de satiété vient d’autant plus vite que ce que l’on mange a du gout". Could you translate please, muito obrigado:-)

See you soon.

I’m not getting into the kir / kir royale debate again.

Did all you folks read the article in the latest "France Today" about the problem with overweight and even (quelle horreur) obesity in France?

You might find it interesting. They are talking about changing school lunch menus and ways to get people to exercise more. (and no, I didn’t write the article!)

Oi CRC!

Try and refrain from vulgar insults about ignorant stubborn Anglo-Saxon barbarians (a french man I trust? calling us stubborn? Funny).

And Dan, sounds like you had a great time looking at the french women, but not all french ran like crazy in the war, so do us all a favour and give that tired cliche a rest please.

Yes, I’m English-Irish. "Petite Anglaise" was coined by the garlic muncher who lives with me from our time in Paris. Two and a half years "education" have meant I have lost a stone and a half but eat more than previously….so it is very interesting what you are saying LVB about chemicals and processed foods.

My opinion is good food and education go hand in hand. In England, we have the odious task of re-educating on that score. Latest stats show 1 in 7 of 2-11 year olds in this country are obese. Apparently it is more prolific in inner cities – interestingly enough where fast food stores are also more common.

Can I ask what peoples’ take on food intolerance issues are?

Merci,

Petite Anglaise

Ps Wish us luck for tomorrow – general election with the prospect of another term of "Bliar" or as some of my french friends put it "le chien d’Amerique", God help us.

P.A., We were in Italy during the American elections last November (we voted absentee) and our landlady, who spoke no English came into breakfast the day after elections and announced, "Bush, Blair, Berlusconi . . . BAH!" It was a rather telling comment. I’m assuming Bah means the same in English, French and Italian.

I’m not sure what you mean by food intolerance issues. We have made it a point not to eat food if it doesn’t taste good. That effectively eliminates virtually all fast food. We have no objection to the infamous chocolate as long as it is of high quality. My husband strongly feels that nearly anything in moderation is okay. I’m not quite that generous but I do think moderation is the key. In the US, portion sizes have been getting larger and larger and I think that is part of the problem. We’ve noticed over the last ten years or so that this is also happening in France. Years ago we never got more on our plates than we could eat. Nowadays, we often leave French restaurants with quite a bit of food on our plates. Oddly, the less expensive the restaurant, the greater the food quantity!

The article in "France Today" also mentioned long commutes and little time for traditional cooking. I think that is also true in America. You constantly see people sitting in their cars in traffic eating a variety of things and obviously, they are getting no exercise. Another contributor, at least in my mind, is the gradual acceptance of being overweight. In the olden days, if you were overweight, you were teased and shamed. Now, everyone is overweight (figuratively speaking) so it is more accepted. In times past if you were overweight, there were only frumpy dark clothes to purchase. Now you can get nearly anything you want in large sizes. It is easier to be overweight. Obviously, this is both good and bad. It’s nice people can dress the way they want and not be made fun of, but it’s bad that the motivation to keep off the unhealthy excess poundage has been removed.

What exactly did you mean by "food intolerance issues?"

Petite Anglaise: I am sorry for my off the cuff remark about the French Resistance pulling back at the onset of WWII. I don’t know all the facts about how things went for France in the early days even before FDR declared War on Germany.

I do have a warning about Alitalia and Air France. Their system of Voucher usage for when "you can’t make a flight" or wish to change a flight (in advance) is very suspect and somewhat Fraudulent. I am very disappointed with the Air France Vendre Agent at San Francisco International. All he could tell me was to Call the New York Office of Alitalia…that Alitalia and Air France would just keep my $750.00.
It’s amazing how America West Airline gave me a New ticket to use in October to go to Chicago…no "Gliches" in their system like Alitalia and Air France. Or Maybe they hide behind Dutch people at KLM and call it Alitalia/AirFrance/KLM. This Shell game has to stop.

Hey Dan,

It doesn’t surprise me in the slightest that you were treated badly by Air France. I worked for them for a number of years and unfortunately received a great deal of comments, such as yours, from my clients. All I can say is vote with your feet and use an airline that treats your custom with respect. I can’t comment on Alitalia and KLM, but its a shame if their "SkyWorld" Alliance is leading to this kind of practice.

Regarding the Kir Royale, stand corrected, thanks for pointing that out C.

Sal – I was along the lines of do you think the rise of food intolerances has a relation to the increase of chemicals being used in the process?

There was an article today about the need for swiftness of consumption in the UK which is why the "Tesco" and asda giants are doing so well – at the expense of smaller establishments (and quality? – dreadful health scare recently in ready made meals that contained – wait for it – a cancer causing chemical. Too bad they didn’t spot it right away.)

Does anything like this happen in the States or in France (apart from les vache folles d’angleterre…..?)

Dear Petite Anglaise:
Thank you for your comment regarding my loss to Alitalia and "Skyworld". I want to say that the Hostess of Air France at SFO herself was quite nice and all. I think she was a Californian dressed as an Air France person…she was nice. I am glad to hear you worked at AirFrance for all that time. I know it takes effort and dedication to succeed in that work. Be assured that because of my Alitalia Airfrance snafu yesterday, I did not run out and cut up my "FrequencePlus" member card. I still like things French and still enjoy most of the ways…and I still admire many French leaders and all who intelligently stick to their views and policies. As for my loss of dollars, I did a stupid, hasty reservation trying really to see how good Alitalia really was. I lived in Rome in Fall 1973, and was willing to try it out. I have lost more money on cars with bad transmissions, or maybe my total of gambling losses at Casinos. A nice English woman with her two kids was just here asking my help on Disney World ideas and "the Magic Kingdom", and I gladly helped and told her what might be still there…though I am more familiar with Disneyland (the Original, she and her children had already been to EuroDisney by Paris). I try to just stay positive and thus happier, though I know I do react sometimes with flipness or disregard.

P.A. wrote: "I was along the lines of do you think the rise of food intolerances has a relation to the increase of chemicals being used in the process? . . . dreadful health scare recently in ready made meals that contained – wait for it – a cancer causing chemical."

I don’t doubt the rise in food intolerance, asthma and allergies in general have a lot to do with various chemical additives to our food. Equally bad are the things fed to the animals that become food. We avoid a lot of meat although we aren’t strict vegetarians. We also grow quite a bit of our own produce. That’s fairly easy in southern California.

They are always finding nasty chemicals (cancer causing and otherwise) in our foods. There is a momentary scandal; Congress passes some ridiculous law that is ignored; fines are paid . . . and it continues or occasionally abates until the next scandal. As long as people can make a lot of money by taking chances with the health of others, there will be food scandals.

The UK actually has some foods that I’d love to see in the US. I’m thinking of the cheese and salad dressing that contain cholesterol-lowering ingrediants. These appear to be made by removing the milk fat and replacing it with wheat germ oil. That seems pretty safe to me but the FDA won’t allow them into the US. Trader Joe’s recently began carrying a cheddar that is made this way and actually tastes fairly decent. Yoplait has a yogurt that is available in many places here but only three flavors. The salad dressing was here and then the FDA pulled it off the market. It is a labeling disagreement.

These things are forbidden, but Twinkies are okay. Go figure . . .

Hey Sal,

Got a great idea for salad dressing from the Chef. So easy.

You take the yolk of an egg, dash of salt and pepper, a desert spoon of Dijon mustard – less if you prefer. The main thing is to have a good amount of olive oil.

Then you whisk the egg and slowly pour in the oil – really drizzle it. The whole mixture will expand. When you are happy – put this on your salad. Its beautiful and also extremely good for you.

Enjoy all!

Dan – we can all be flippant at times mate. Try wearing trousers with deep pockets next time you go to the casino – more difficult to get to the cash that way… 🙂

Yes, Petite Anglaise: I will make sure I have deeper pockets…and lately I have had my pockets with dime and nickel size holes (in my tennis shorts, etc.) sewn up with double stitching.

crc97320: I have just returned from two glorious weeks in LaFrance. Fantastic weather, people, food, etc. I have a couple of more theories as to why French women are not fat: (1) they eat their meals very slowly, allowing time for enzymes to work more effectively; and, (2) stairs. There are effing stairs all over LaFrance. In the Metro, in the Museums, in the little towns, in the churches, etc. etc. And thanks crc97320 for explaining the facts of life to TPWIAO with respect to kir. Donerail

Donerail : glad you had a blast in France. Where did you go ? What did you see ? Except for stairs and eating females ? I miss France sometimes, the food chiefly. Simple things, like opening a bottle of rouge and chewing on saucisson slowly, slice after slice. Oh well. Nothing new here while you were gone. I think I demonstrated what kir is and what it isn’t. I think.

CRC

Lucky you, Donerail. Two Weeks in France eh? what a lucky guy. Did you go mostly to Paris and see the Stairs there? lol. Or were you looking at the Stairs in Marseille. I have this curiosity about Marseille, even though I know Paris is one heckuvalot of place. It’s just Saturday after Mass, ushering went well…I prayed for what I could. Glad you’re back Donerail. And, CRC I am not sure what Kir is but I will find out someday and just enjoy what I have here for now. Nice of you to welcome Donerail back… jolly good.

crc97320/dan: Mrs Donerail and I spent the first 3 nuits in Amboise at the foot of the Amboise Castle. We spent most of the next three days visiting chateaux et castles. The food in Amboise was magnificent – especially the lobster ravioli at L’Epicerie in Amboise. The next three days were spent in Gramat on the border of Midi Pyrenees and the Dorgogne. We stayed at a 4 epi Chambre d’Hote and had spectacular meals there at night. During the days we explored the wine region, abbayes, and towns like Rocamadour, Salat le Canada, etc. Then three glorious days in the Pyrenees moutains in another Chambre d’Hote. More great food and comraderie. Mountain roads and the Pic du Mide. Travels up the various Cols. Then back north to Uzerche, and Villenueve sur Yonne. At the latter we stayed at Leslie Caron’s place "The Owls Nest" where we had perhaps the best meal of our lives. That is saying something as the prior meals would have claimed that award. The rouge wines of Cahors, Bergerac, and Pauliac were amazing as were the blancs of Montbizilliac and Jurancon. We also met the president of Chateau Bonnin of St. Emilion of Bordeaux. Amazing wines. Also sampled a half dozen new varieties of frommage. The last two nights were spent in Paris. The weather during the whole trip was spectacular. The greatest tip that I can pass on is the navigation system (GPS) system that we had with our rental car. It was just like having a native in the car with you. We traveled 4000 kilometers and the system was accurate to within a few feet. The system had such a nice French voice as well. Donerail

donerail, Presumably your debit card worked well? We’re leaving for France and Germany. Won’t be back until mid October so hope you all enjoy yourselves in the meantime.

LVB, I made a note of the restaurant you mentioned (and the wine shop!) and we’ll make every effort to get there at least once. Thanks so much.

SalB: The debit card worked out great. It was smoking by the end of the trip. I envy you having the next six months in Europe. As much as I love Europe and France in particular, we start to get homesick after about 2 1/2 to three weeks. You obviously have overcome that problem! Donerail

By the way people, we Superior Europeans encounter the same card problems when we go to the US. See, a "credit card" here means any type of card. Whereas in the US, they make a difference between debit and credit, which is indeed the right thing to do. There are few real credit cards in France, but it’s starting to come up.

The code punching thing at the cashier is the rule in France, I think it’s rather recent in the US, isn’t it ? We always get troubled with that in the US : whether we call credit or debit, the code punching thing still won’t work, so, we stick to the same old mode of signing the imprint of the card.

The cashier is usually troubled by our cards since they bear a computer chip, so they look carefully at it before running it, and sometimes ask me where I’m from to carry such a weird card ! (by the way, nice conversation starter with cute college chicks working in the malls on week-ends).

CRC

crc97320: I am thinking about another two week trip to France for the first two weeks of November. Bordeaux for a few days and then to Brittany/Loire for a week before Paris for a couple of days. Any suggestions or comments on the weather? Air France is running a special promotion for November-March. Donerail

Donerail : what do you want me to tell you about the weather ? These places will be rainy but not cold … satisfied ? I have never been to Bordeaux, but I know a little about Brittany. Weird weird people, but very nice sights, especially on the coast.

So, I’m thinking of landing in Miami FL in oct., then I want to drive to Jacksonville, cross the peninsula, and then do all the Gulf of Mexico coast : Mobile AL, Biloxi MS, and on to Shreveport LA or maybe Baton Rouge. What’d’you say ??

CRC

CRC97320: Thanks for the info. With regard to Florida, be very careful about landing in Miami or traveling anywhere around there. It is very dangerous. Once you get out of the Miami area you will be OK. I presume it is a business trip you are going on as I can’t imagine any other reason for traveling in that area. I just got confirmation on my AF tickets for November – a pretty good deal. Donerail

crc97320: I forgot to mention, the drive from Miami to Jacksonville will take forever. It must be 800KM or more. Do it in the winter. Donerail

donerail : two trips the same year … wow. Are you considering retiring in France ? You can do that. We give residency permits to those who can prove they can live off their own resources. You should think of it.

CRC

crc: Listen to donerail. Miami can be VERY dangerous for tourists. Tourists are routinely targed for robbery (and sometimes, murder) by way of their rental cars. Criminals see the rental car on the road and target it. I wouldn’t go there if I didn’t have to. I’ve driven through the deep south in 2001 and I didn’t find anything wonderful. If you do go, expect to see mud roads, lots of barefoot and pregnant women and plenty of illegal immigrants. I saw white peole living in nice homes while the local blacks, etc. were living in glorified roadside shacks with outhouses. You might say I’m stereotyping the region, but things haven’t changed down there since they freed the slaves.

If you do want to go to the deep South, why don’t you go to New Orleans? At least the shopping is good, the food is decent and they have a good jazz/French quarter.

crc97320: I have actually been looking at more French real estate ads lately. The more we go to France, the more tempting it becomes. I am afraid I would miss my Harley bretheren too much and there is the possibility (albeit remote) that I would end up next door to TPWIAO. Donerail

LVB : with all due respect, I do believe you are stereotyping. I know Mississippi quite well, and even though it’s supposed to be the US’ poorest state, I haven’t seen any of what you describe. As for FL, I don’t know the place yet, but the airline (a south american one) I’m taking lands there and there only. Since FL and LA are the last southern states I’ve never been to yet, I decided to seize the opportunity to visit.

I’m also being cautious with what you say about New Orleans : from what I’ve heard New Orleans is one shallow, fairy, tourist trap where everything is fake. The so-called French Quarter is not even french, and most of the jazzmen are from the north. The american tourists who get excited about New Orleans must be the same happy nerds that get all excited in Montmartre !

Donerail : if you consider buying real estate in France, make up your mind quickly. The prices are going up every day, and they won’t go down. And you know you’ll find some of your harley geeks in France too ! Especially in the south. Go to google.fr and enter "concentration harley", and you will see.

BTW, the best french real estate website should be http://www.pap.fr (english translation available), especially for the Paris area. Try also http://www.bonjour.fr for the Province.

CRC

crc: I’m just telling you what I saw when I drove through that region. Maybe you’ve seen something different, it’s entirely possible. However, I drove through the rural areas. I stayed off the main interstate so I could see how the locals lived. I was very suprised with what I’d seen. I’d thought things had changed. It’s probably different in the main cities.

I’ve NEVER been to New Orleans. I’m just telling you what others have told me. Whenever I tell them that I’m going to France/Quebec, they tell me to stay home and go to New Orleans instead because I can get "French" culture there while keeping my dollars "home in the USA." As you can see, I’ve never followed their advice.

My French boyfriend had some bad experiences with the USA customs in Miami. They picked him out because he was French and he missed his connecting flight. He had to take the next flight and he arrived many hours late for his business appointments, etc.

donerail: If you buy property in France, does that mean we can all stay at your place there for vacations?

LVB: No problem, but the rent must be paid promptly and in advance and in euros. Donerail

CRC: As far as cities in the USA that I would put on a list to avoid number one would be Miami. A close second would be Detroit. Detroit would have been on the top of the list but the locals at least speak English. Sort of. As far as States that I would put on a list to avoid: It is difficult not to name Mississippi as number one and Alabama number two. I suppose I should toss Florida in there as well. On a more positive note, cities that should be visited are Boston, San Francisco, Portland (Oregon), and Richmond (Virginia). Donerail

donerail: I’m shocked!! SHOCKED!! that you’d charge ME…ME!!! rent!

Charging LaVieilleBranche rent!!! what a crime!!!

Aaahhhhh …northern liberal WASP and the Deep South …the way they despise/fear/hate it without really knowing much of it … I’ve heard so much of that I could write a whole thesis about it … but, I have no time right now … am in La Martinique for a week, with a wonderful view of the beach, all expenses paid by the French govt. Will talk to you people later !

CRC

What, What, What??? A travel to La Martinique, paid with MY TAXES. You could at least bring lena and me with you. we’ve never been there.
You’ll show us the photos: it’s our right, we’ve paid for it:-)

Blague à part, dis moi quand tu reviens, dès que la grève du port prend fin, je vais monter à Saint Laurent. J’y serai de toutes façons pour la Braderie.

Have fun in La martinique.

Montjoly.

Montjoly : emmène ta femme pour un week-end prolongé en Martinique, c’est vraiment très beau, sympa, bien équipé, et pas trop grand. J’ai beaucoup aimé.

Je t’en parlerai autour d’une caçassa, à la Goëlette, dans quelques semaines

Bien à toi,

CRC

Crc: hum! pour la Goelette, benjamin et moi sommes d’accord; pour la cachaça, t’es sur de toi???

Au fait, tiens moi au courant pour les states ( Ben est très intéressé par le pays de Jack Daniels!!! ). Pour le Brésil, j’y vais du 11 au 29 juillet et j’y retournerai en janvier, probablement du 13-14 à la fin du mois.

Montjoly.